Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

General materials & resin discussions
edefault
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#11 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:27 pm

Thanks for the advice! I'll heed them when I replace the PDMS next time - yet it is not damaged again.

When using the "post cure unit", one has to move/turn the parts inside from time to time, because otherwise there is significant bending - it seems as if the resin shrinks when post-cured, primarily on the "enlightened" side.

Rabs1
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#12 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:46 am

Hi, What mix did you use in the end with the two rubber components and the oil? Is it still working well? This is so much more cost effective for those of us in Europe.

edefault
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#13 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:14 am

mix is 20g base + 20g hardener + 5g oil

Rabs1
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#14 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:16 pm

And in your experience, how does it compare to the Sylgard in use? Is it as reliable, does it still go cloudy? Any other comments.
Thanks

edefault
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#15 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:38 am

it is a bit cloudier compared to sylgard, which is crystal clear, from the start, but

1) easier to handle - making of the "waterfall" slope with sylgard is tricky, since it takes 48h to cure
2) not as fragile - I just ruined a fresh sylgard coating by only slightly wiping over the "waterfall"

Bas
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#16 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:29 am

I also have problems with the PDMS. I can see clearly cloudy spots from earlier prints, burned in the surface. The sylgard also tends to loosen at the waterfall location, getting air under the PDMS. It's just too fragile.
How can you best clean the pdms after a print, without wrecking it? Now I wipe the resin off with some paper, and then poor cold water over it. I wipe it dry, and then I use isopropyl alcohol and some paper, to clean the surface.

edefault: How is your experience with printing with SF-45 2K? Is there any loss of detail or increase of failed prints compared to sylgard?

edefault
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#17 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:01 pm

I had both Sylgard and SF-45 working.

Sylgard seems to be more fragile, three Sylgard coatings ripped off compared to one SF-45 that began to bulge behind the waterfall so I tore it off myself before it could seriously ruin a print.

However, SF-45 seems to be more prone to "grey" where it was exposed repeatedly.
Maybe this is simply because I made much more use of it (Sylgard didn't make it there):

Image

de
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#18 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:36 am

Hi MikeJ
I was reading about a Titandioxid coating for windows together with UV Light it is super hydrophilicity.
Could that be a alternativ to the VAT coating ?

anlumo
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#19 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:39 pm

I've done my first coating with SF-45, but there are many bubbles on the shallow end (strangely, it's very clear on the deep end). I'm doing a test print now in the hopes that it'll work out anyways (the largest ones are outside the small build area).

I suspect that because SF-45 cures so much faster, the air doesn't have the time to escape.

juweeltje
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#20 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:01 pm

So any progress worth the sf-45?
Is it a great alternative for the sylgard?
Does it affect the quality of the prints at 50um?

billykid
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#21 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:47 am


saab
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#22 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:54 am

So any progress worth the sf-45?
Is it a great alternative for the sylgard?
Does it affect the quality of the prints at 50um?


+1
Is it?

Samuel Arredondo
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#23 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:19 pm

I'm working with Polastosil m-2000 since 5 months and it works very well.
1kg Polastosil m-2000 + 100 g hardner costed me about 40 Euros with shipping to switzerland from Poland.

I bought it directly through the original manufacturer at this E-mail: anna.korba@silikony.pl

At the 1st Try I used the same ratio I used usually for Sylgard -> 45.45g silicon + 4.54g hardner so an 1/10 ratio.
This was too much hardner, the Polastosil shrinked and came off from the sides of the Vat.
So I tried to read the instructions in Polish :), they recommand indeed: the curing catalyst should be used in an amount of from 5 to 8 parts by weight per 100 parts by weight.

So actually I mix 45.45g Polastosil with 3.18g of hardener ( an amount of 7 parts ) and it works very well.

It seems to me that compared to Sylgard, Polastosil m-2000 might be a little more sturdy, and there's less cloudiness with very reactive resins like SubG and SubG+.

I always let the Polastosil dry 48h, so I dont have any experience how it will react with an oven.

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perpetual_dreamer
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#24 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:11 am

anyone find a cheaper and more durable alternative for the PDMS here in North America? ^^

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mikej
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#25 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:18 am

Some reports that using a higher ratio of catalyst with the Sylgard 184 makes it "tougher". I've not had any time to experiment along those lines.
I'm sure there are other clear silicon coatings that would be tougher, but might have less oxygen permeability (but maybe still enough). Lot's of room for testing these.
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

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akgold
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#26 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:54 am

Stands to reason that more catalyst would cure faster. I know that if you use more in two part epoxy you have to be quicker.
As far as tougher maybe
I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

kkpmo
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#27 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:08 pm

Hi Samuel, please write me when all looks good with Polastosil m-2000 i build to this moment a testprinter based on b9creator firmware http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?336,295722,300673#msg-300673 i use for coatings the QSil216 from UK 100USD for 1.1kg

Arno-Millenaar
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#28 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:22 am

I have purchased 1kg Polastosil M-2000 and tested it as follows using the Rook object as it is very demanding on the PDMS as it has many exposures on the same surface. I have been using the FTD IB as the test resin.

I tested as follows:

1) using 7% hardener and curing at 70C for 2 hours and baking at 125C for another hour + slow cool down

results: good 'release' of the PDMS however almost instant clouding and only able to use the vat once.

2) using only 5% hardener and curing at 70C for 2 hours and slow cool down

results: good 'release' of the PDMS however (again) almost instant clouding and only able to use the vat once.

My conclusion: It would have been great to have an alternative for Sylgard 184 (especially in Europe) however based on my test results it is unfortunately not usable for application in the B9C with the FTD resins and possibly other resins (not tested).

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Robert Howle
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#29 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:32 am

I have used Sylgard 184 and 182 with good results. This is with storing resin in the vat, no water on PDMS and no alcohol on PDMS.

Robert
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Arno-Millenaar
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#30 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:55 am

Quote from Robert Howle on November 9, 2014, 13:32
I have used Sylgard 184 and 182 with good results. This is with storing resin in the vat, no water on PDMS and no alcohol on PDMS.

Robert


Agree, I also use Sylgard 184 and keep the resin (overnight) in the vat. Also NO water and NO alcohol come into contact with the PDMS. So far this seems to be my 'preferred' brand/type for PDMS. BTW, I have 3 vat's that I use concurrently. Always making sure I have a 'fresh' one(or two) available when needed. Loosing a 'day' because of not having a fresh vat available would be a 'problem' and a missed 'return on investment' taking that the cost of a 'fresh vat' is about USD $5 on Sylgard PDMS used.

Its just that being in Europe you have to keep 'an eye' on the Sylgard stock as ordering it through eBay still takes about a week to max 10 calendar days before being delivered in Europe.

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