GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Successful prints based on Model construction, supports, material selection & printer settings.
kirkrhino
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#1 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:46 am

Ok, here's the pics I promised of my 20ML PDMS "Double-dog Waterfall" Polycarbonate VAT with Starfire low iron Glass Window!

Image
Image
Image
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or gallery here:
http://imgur.com/a/GcVkK

The poly is mill slotted on the bottom and sides so it's super tight once it's bolted together. 100% Silicone seals it up nicely without the need for messy and toxic weldon glues. The "double waterfall" insert is removable but stays in and is sealed up against the edge of the glass so no bubbles can flow through into the PDMS from the bottom. When used with 200 degree oven, only requires 45 minutes cure time as poly can handle up to 300, and easily the full 200 degrees the PDMS can. So it's fast!

Re coating procedure: Preheat oven to 200, add some blue removable tape as a temporary dam at the edge of glass. Add mixed PDMS and spread to all four corners of glass. Level out for a couple of minutes and pop all bubbles with toothpick or pin, (otherwise they will set up permanently at this fast cure rate). Remove blue masking tape and place VAT into preheated (super level inside) digital toaster oven.I have a glass shelf inside the oven so there is a solid flat surface for the vat to rest on. I also use a tripod laser level to level the glass shelf (that calibrates off of gravity).

Clean up: Poly is alcohol friendly so cleanup is a snap. Spray in a bit of alcohol to loosen up resin, and then soap and water- I like using an alcohol saturated microfiber cloth (same kind for cleaning glasses) to wipe the PDMS clean before next use. Glass window can be cleaned squeaky clean so PDMS sticks well. Inside edges can also be wiped with alcohol prior to re coating so it sticks super well, (almost too well). But is helpful when using certain resins that wanna rip it off the floor: )

Prep for re coating requires a razor blade to scrape here and there, and a bit of removal down in the lower falls- milled section of the bottom plate- so the next batch of PDMS can seal tightly to the floor, but clearing out the holes is not necessary, as the next batch just adheres to what's left inside of them.

No meniscus issues whatsoever! I found out the hard way that dams and inserts level with the PDMS surface can cause those issues, thus the double waterfall design provides a way for the PDMS to flow under the bottom fall where it seals up securely.

PDMS cures flat and even as the first waterfall is identical to the standard vat. When placed in a preheated oven, the PDMS cures fast enough so it only flows over down into the lower waterfall lattice (in the deep end) and not much further beyond that. Only requires 20 to 25 ml to cover that way. I also add a touch more activator to toughen it up a bit. Could get away with as little as 15ML bit would be on the thin side. : ) Resulting PDMS Waterfall is super nice radius, smooth, even and meniscus free. (will update with pics of a coated VAT when I get a chance, : )

So that's what's possible, I say we continue to make this even better and easier, but for me this is the ultimate, as it doesn't get much better than this!

Best, Kirk

pbs
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#2 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:25 am

Nice!

lswatson
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#3 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:25 am

Very cool!! Taking orders?

awerby
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#4 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:46 am

I want one! How much?

Andrew Werby
Juxtamorph.com

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akgold
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#5 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:01 am

count me in for one.
That is very cool.
I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

kiwigod
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#6 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:20 am

Count me in as well.

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perpetual_dreamer
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#7 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:32 am

+1 would love to buy them if you ever plan on making them available, even as a kit of cut parts.. or from anyone who could make them :)

jbin
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#8 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:05 am

I would definitely be interested in buying on or two.

kirkrhino
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#9 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:18 am

Thanks everyone!

I was hoping this might inspire Mike to create a similar version of glass vat, I have had some conversations with him on this and he has done some preliminary designs in regards to reduced volume models in the past. Also, the B9 is his baby, and his bread and butter, so again I was wanting to get his design in his hands to see if he wants to bother with it or not? I promised to send him one here shortly.

I do like his design too because it can be done with a laser, and then just glued together. The poly requires much more time and effort to produce, and more expensive materials etc. Also I assume he wants something everyone can easily use, even those who don't want to bother with an oven or heatbox for curing. It is possible to make all of that happen based on this for a starting point, even if it's just glass and poly for the slow cure models, or even just glass and acrylic might be something that works and is fast and cheap to produce.

Anyways, I promised to send him one and my only problem is I have a pressing project that requires my full attention for the next couple of weeks. After that and depending on what Mike's opinions/interests conclusions are, I will know more. I plan on respecting those, and would love to make them available for everyone one way or another. Glass is so much easier to clean and maintain. And the low volume PDMS feature saves cash in the long run. : ) I believe this is the way to go for sure.. : ) If he gives me the green light in the meantime, I could probably gear up and have them available in a month or so. I know there are others working on similar designs as well.. And keep in mind this is hot off the press and only been in use for about a week, so there may or may not be a few refinements left to discover? So far so good though, seems rock solid, and I have some printing to do on this vital project! Will update as soon as I know more.

Best, Kirk

jbryant
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#10 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:38 am

very cool indeed.

kirkrhino
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#11 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:19 pm

Ok, as promised I am back on track with the latest news on the K9 Perma-VAT. : ) After much debating, have decided to go with ALUMINUM for the final design, for multiple reasons. Although polycarb would probably last a lifetime with standard B9 resins, it seems other aftermarket resins such as makerjuice CAN indeed begin to take devastating a toll certain plastics, perhaps even on poly, - In addition, someone also presented claims that alcohol could (might) also possibly eventually effect the POLY? Given all of this, plus unknowns such as oven heating/cooling over time, Plastic is officially out. Good news is ALUMINUM is an even better choice.

Due to multiple requests, I am now committed to making this happen, so may as well do it right the first time. Built to last a lifetime, and yes the glass is replaceable if ever necessary.
Final design optimizations in ALUMINUM are now COMPLETE and am ready to cut the first PROTOTYPE this weekend. YAY! Same identical features as my first POLY pictured above, and according to rhino it's right on target weight-wise, - (took some doing) and yes, best of all it has identical double-waterfall PDMS saver features!
The other consideration with ALUMINUM is to ANODIZE PLATE or not? It's kind of expensive for a small batch, but worth it in my opinion. Keep in mind the build table is ANODIZED aluminum as well. Will have to see how it goes and doing so will add another week or so to the process. Your thoughts? Color choices?

Will also be sending Mike one of these once I get a small batch completed, so he can get in on this as well if he so chooses?

After the first prototype is complete, the plan is to continue forward and produce a batch of 25 in order to cover the initial tooling, material and yes probably plating costs, (again, might as well do it right to start with).

Will update with pics as soon as I get the first one done. Could be as soon as THIS WEEKEND -but depends on how fast I can get the mill programming done and multiple fixtures created and set up. Always takes longer than you want it to. REALISTICALLY Will probably take 2 more weekends just to pioneer the first one, but after that I can set up and mass produce a small batch relatively quickly.

Anyways, if you are potentially among the interested, please feel free to message me with a one sentence reply. No commitment necessary. A few folks are already waiting. No orders until they are ready to ship, but will be contacting the folks first who contacted me by messages/above posts/ or emails first. Should know pricing and availability once I get the first one done,- and YES there is still A TON of work to be done, (smiles) but my weekends are now freed up for now. and I am finally ready to double-dog down and get choppin! :D : )

Smiles and laughs, Kirk ---- k94b9vats@gmail.com ------

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noahbern
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#12 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:18 am

If you don't mind ad me to that list please

kirkrhino
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#13 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:19 am

Will do Noahbern!

Centaur
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#14 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:45 am

Please could you add me to list as well - I'd be interested in a couple, depending on final cost.

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Robert Howle
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#15 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:23 am

Count me in on the want list.. one or two depending on final costs.

Robert
Dance like nobody's watching!

lunakov
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#16 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:16 pm

Can you post a picture of the prototype in aluminum? I assume it will have a glass window?

Ross
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#17 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:44 pm

Count me in for 1 or 2 as well please.
Ross

kirkrhino
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#18 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:47 am

Sure thing Ross, thanks for your interest..

Sneak Peek! Making good progress! Still need second ops and PDMS insert. More soon- Kirk

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/omye.jpg/][IMG]http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/496/omye.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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noahbern
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#19 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:15 am

Please put me on that list too. Looks great

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noahbern
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GEN 2 ALUMINUM "KAT VAT" coming soon!

Post#20 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:15 am

Please put me on that list too. Looks great

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