Build lines on the surface

Hardware issues, problems and solutions
kartik
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4

Build lines on the surface

Post#1 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:36 am

Hi,

I have attached some images for the first print that I did on a b9 1.2 creator. I was trying out this printer from a friend before deciding to buy one. The platform that I ran was 50xy 30z. There are a lot of build lines on the surface. I guess that I might be doing something wrong. I have set the settings at factory defaults and tried with a new vat.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Kartik Doshi
Attachments
IMG_20171216_160324.jpg
IMG_20171216_160308.jpg
IMG_20171216_160254.jpg
IMG_20171216_155921.jpg

Aaron RMW
B9 Maker
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Posts: 136

Re: Build lines on the surface

Post#2 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:21 am

From what I understand this is what is called the "lego effect" or something similar. Basically if you are expecting a glossy smooth finish you will be disappointed, this is due to the way the printer "builds" the object. it is a layer at time, and each layer is made of pixels the end result being the tiniest finest thing it could possibly create is a block. It would be a small one, almost too small to see that it's cube shaped (or rectangular prism anyway). your object is essentially being built by making a layer of these tiny blocks, like lego bricks, and since these simple lego bricks aren't rounded or slanted in any way you see "build lines" where the topography has variations.

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Robert Howle
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Re: Build lines on the surface

Post#3 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:05 pm

You will see an improvement at 30 xy on the 1.2. The print lines are more prominent on curved surfaces. You can minimize this effect with orientation in some cases.

Robert Howle
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Metalcaster
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Re: Build lines on the surface

Post#4 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:06 pm

Actually, thats a bit too much build lines... I suggest putting a light grease or oil on the Z rod. this will help it run smoother. If the z rod is not turning true and is going out of round a bit, then fixing that will help. I made a simple holder at the top to hold the rod straight.
Try printing these rings horizontally , due to the height difference, you will find the rings print much faster and may end up smoother as well.

If the Projector is slightly out of alignment,left,right, backwards, forwards, it can cause lines as well.
Some occasional lines will happen. but not that much

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RobertW
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Re: Build lines on the surface

Post#5 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:10 pm

What RobertH said. You are running the print at a medium quality setting. To test quality, use the best setting. I suggest you (or the seller) raise the projector to the top holes, recalibrate the projector and run the test print. Once calibrated you can run your model.
On our v1.2's we print all models at 30xyz. Slanted or tapering surfaces will still have grow lines but they're pretty fine and quickly removed with a rubber wheel or sandpaper.

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akgold
B9 Wizard
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Posts: 2031

Re: Build lines on the surface

Post#6 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:21 pm

Your at 50xy and using 30z to slice If your going to try and grow at 50 instead of the recomeded xy of 30 then your going to have to do some fine

tuning and your going to have to slice at 10 and that will increase your print times by about 50% more than if you would just set it up to correct settings for what your doing.

If you are "borrowing" a printer with no knowledge of how to use it then you will become frustrated and think it is a bad printer when actually it's a due to operator error.

Get someone to show you how it works like the guy selling it to you
I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

Aaron RMW
B9 Maker
B9 Maker
Posts: 136

Re: Build lines on the surface

Post#7 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:21 pm

Metalcaster wrote:If the Projector is slightly out of alignment,left,right, backwards, forwards, it can cause lines as well.
Some occasional lines will happen. but not that much


Wait, What? can you explain this further for me?

kartik
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4

Re: Build lines on the surface

Post#8 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:19 am

Hi,

Thank you all for the replies and tips.

Thanks for the suggestion to print at xy at 30 microns for better results, but most of the parts we do would not fit in the 30 micron platform size. That is the constraint and hence am testing the printer at 50. I guess that emerald can go to 25 micron layer size, hence have sliced a print at 25 to see the results.

@Metalcaster : Have greased the z rod and have put a print to see the results. As I am a newbie to this, if you could elaborate on tip about projector alignment, it would be great.

Will post the feedback on how this goes.

Thanks,
Kartik.

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Metalcaster
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Re: Build lines on the surface

Post#9 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:23 am

Hi Aaron,
Basically, the projector needs to be in perfect alignment to get the very best results.
That is not so easy when there are other areas of the machine that may not be 100% Square ... But after ALL the machine is squared up internally... Backplate needs to be perfect... then the internal shelf is affected when the back is adjusted, So that has to be worked on... Assuming all is good.
Now, the Projector set up has play.. It can be off left or right , back and forth...
If it's a tiny bit off left or right, you are going to create some lines in that plane....
Sometimes, you can adjust this easily with the Orange Calibration paddles. The arrows are the key. They need to be the same size and shape when projected.
If there are other steps in the print, then the front to back can be part of the cause.
I can tell you that I have spent well over a 100 hours adjusting my machines... Each time I found something, I created a fix for it.

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akgold
B9 Wizard
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Posts: 2031

Re: Build lines on the surface

Post#10 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:54 pm

kartik wrote:Hi,

Thank you all for the replies and tips.

Thanks for the suggestion to print at xy at 30 microns for better results, but most of the parts we do would not fit in the 30 micron platform size. That is the constraint and hence am testing the printer at 50. I guess that emerald can go to 25 micron layer size, hence have sliced a print at 25 to see the results.

@Metalcaster : Have greased the z rod and have put a print to see the results. As I am a newbie to this, if you could elaborate on tip about projector alignment, it would be great.

Will post the feedback on how this goes.

Thanks,
Kartik.


The problem here is you posted pictures of two rings that were grown at the wrong xy and the wrong z for those items.
if you are not growing rings and as you say growing large items that will not fit on the 30xy platform then you should post pictures of those items that are relevant to conversation. Rather than waste our time trying to help you with a problem that doesn't exist.
I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

Aaron RMW
B9 Maker
B9 Maker
Posts: 136

Re: Build lines on the surface

Post#11 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:23 am

I think there may still be an issue AK, and he hasn't wasted our time necessarily just because an item is too large to fit in the 30 xy window doesn't mean it's devoid of detail and doesn't need good calibration. This user does seem to have an issue with the z-rod maybe, there's a regularly appearing weirdly positioned layer. Might be responsible for those supports having a sidestep in them. That misaligned part of the support in one of the pictures. It's on supports on separate parts but at seemingly the same hieght for the disconnect and reconnect. there's the normal lego effect, but then at regular intervals you have a more noticeable layer. i think that's what the user is talking about.

as far as detail is concerned. i have printed 33mm minis for tabletop games that barely fit in our v1.1's 50 xy. if i wanted to print a big bad dragon or even maybe a cavalry mini to the same scale it would need the same level of detail but wouldn't fit in that window. but the v1.2 offers a larger print area at 50 xy so that would work fine for me for printing minis large and small. (though of course the 30 xy would look better). just because the rings will look better at 30 doesn't mean that getting them to print at 50 (where he can print more at a time at a still acceptable resolution perhaps) as well as possible isn't a worthy endeavor.

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