Prints fail after several layers - first prints

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prototyper
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Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#1 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:56 pm

I bought an assembled, calibrated printer. I printed the rook print (available in the "Your first print" page) successfully as my very first print. It looked perfect except the middle spirally strands only survived in one rook.

Every print afterwards has failed. When the build plate has risen high enough, I see that only the foundation has printed in most cases. In one case, there was the actual objected attached to the foundation, though only 10 or so layers worth.

I just tried the calibration print (xy and z at 30 microns) and only the foundation was attached to the build plate at the end of the print.

Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this? Btw, I plan to later move to 70 micron xy, but want to get the factory-calibrated 30 µm xy working before I adjust anything. I did touch the two knobs, though I have put them all the way to the right or left (corresponding to the 30 micron position).
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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#2 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:39 pm

Other information: I'm using B9R-2-BLACK. 30 xy and z. I did try 200 for z one time, which also had the same issue. Actually it may have been the one that made it several layers past the foundation.

I use the default settings every time. I go through the pre-printing checklist each time.

I just realized that the first and only successful print was with a different computer. Could that have something to do with it? I generally check on the print every few mins and the images appear to be projecting normally all the time (no screensaver or other issues).
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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#3 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:04 pm

I just tried the rook print again and it failed in the same way. I will try with the previous computer, next time unless anyone else has any other suggestions.
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Robert Howle
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#4 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:13 pm

Def would go back to the other computer and run a print.

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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#5 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:48 am

Ok I'll try the previous computer, and if that fails, I'll mess around with MSM. It was calibrated to 0.55, so I guess I can increase to 1.0, then decrease from there? Is that generally how to find the right MSM (while doing the calibration print)? And could a low MSM be responsible for print failures that look like mine?

Btw, I just remembered that the printer shut off in the middle of a test print a while ago due to a power loss. Could this have damaged the projector, thus changing the MSM value needed?
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Robert Howle
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#6 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:02 am

Don't think so. First do the test print with the settings put in by the factory using the original computer since that worked. Maybe then u will knwo is something has changed.

Robert
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Metalcaster
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#7 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:35 pm

I have been having the same problem for a couple weeks. Went through a bottle of red/cherry mix trying to print. Changed board, projector and reinstalled software 3 times. Prints flat fine, but will not print anything attached to supports.have tried older prints and completely new prints. Nothing working. This problem slowly got worse to the point of not being able to print anything. All parts on the printer are essentially new as of yesterday when I rebuilt the entire printer. The computer is the same one that was working fine before. I think it may be computer relat, but this computer is built for this. Windows 10, 16 gigs, high end graphics card. I am at a complete loss. I will change to my other computer,which is identical and is currently tky running my older 1.1 machine.... help!!!!

prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#8 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:24 pm

Thanks for the quick weekend reply!

I had changed MSM to 0.75 and the rook print started looking successful but then I stopped it so that I could test the original computer (with MSM set back to 0.55 like it was before).

I did the calibration print for 30 xy and z with the factory calibration values (MSM 0.55). I noticed that when the rectangular foundation is being printed, the vat starts shifting before the projector's image disappears, and about a 3rd of the rectangular image ends up being blocked (for a fraction of a second) by the red piece that the vat sits on. Is that normal?

Anyways, THE CALIBRATION PRINT WORKED ON THE OLD COMPUTER AND NOT THE NEW ONE (with the factory value MSM of 0.55). The "old" computer is a recent Mac running 10.11.5. The "new" computer is a Dell running Windows 10. So it must be some setting on Windows 10 I need to change.

I'm looking at the Display settings and advanced settings, and its all pretty straight forward. The only weird thing is that it had "3D display mode" ON by default when I first connected the DLP a long time ago and I had turned it off. That can't be it. Hmmm. Any ideas?
Last edited by prototyper on Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#9 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:28 pm

For the Mac and the Dell, I didn't use the CD that came with the printer. Maybe I need to install drivers or something? I think I assumed that the Dell would work well with the projector since it worked well with the Mac without needing to install anything.
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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#10 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:55 pm

I'm using an HDMI cable directly connected to the Mac or PC in each case by the way.

Another side note: I use the cheap Dell/Windows PC since I want to leave my Mac available to do other things while a print is going. The PC is giving me lots of trouble like getting stuck forever when rebooting, or losing wifi forever after an hour of rebooting. So it sort of doesn't surprise me.
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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#11 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:28 pm

I found more display options! I don't know what I should change if anything.

Outside of control panel, my computer came with a "Intel HD Graphics Control Panel." There are a three potentially relevant sections. Display, Video, and Power.

In "Display", I select Vivitek from the detected displays. There is a "Quantization Range" with 3 options: Default Range, Limited Range, and Full Range. I'm not sure if I should use Default Range or Full Range. The "?" button says:

"The quantization range option determines the number of distinct colors used in an image to match the original image. Select Default Range to set the default color range of the display. Select Limited Range to specify a subset of the RGB range. Select Full Range to choose the entire RGB range. The effect of this change varies based on the capabilities of the display." So I'm leaving it as Default I guess.

Then there is "IT Content" which can be enabled or disabled, but is enabled by default. The "?" button says: Select enable to display IT Content such as text with high clarity. Select Disable to turn off this option and to display video content with high clarity. The effect of this change varies based on the capabilities of the display. Maybe I should disable it???

In the "Color Settings" tab, Brightness is at 0, Contrast at 50, gamma at 1.0. Those seem right based on the luminance vs. RGB graph that it displays next to it.

Then in the "Video" section, under "Color Enhancement" the "application settings" is selected by default as opposed to "Driver Settings" under the "Standard color correction" options. "Input Range" is also set to "application settings" instead of "driver settings."

Then, still in the "Video" section, under "Image Enhancement," and under "Noise Reduction," "Driver automatic settings" is selected as opposed to "application settings." And under "driver automatic settings,"Partial Reduction" is selected by default as opposed to "Full Reduction." Partial Reduction's slidebar is set to 0.

In the "Power" section, under "Plugged In," the "Graphics Power Plans" was set to "Balanced Mode" which "offers full graphics performance when its needed and minimizes power during inactivity. I changed it to Maximum Performance, but I doubt that will fix it.
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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#12 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:07 pm

I tried a print again with the PC. Failed just like before.

I used diffcheck.com to compare the two "Print Review" text, and they were identical (besides the directory and Port).
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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#13 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:51 pm

UPDATE*** ITS THE EXPOSURE TIME...

Even though the job info is identical, I tried timing the exposure time with a stop watch. When I use my Mac, the exposure time is around 0.4 seconds for the majority of layers.

When I use my PC, the exposure is much quicker... less than 0.2 seconds. I was going to analyze the video I took for both prints, but its quite obvious that the exposure time is way too quick when I use the PC. Looking into it....

(this is for the Documents/B9Creator/Calibrations/v1_2/Calibration_Print_v1_2_30xy_30z.b9j file)
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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#14 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:07 pm

Here's the job info btw:

MAC JOB INFO:

Print Setup Analysis:
Looks good! No issues detected.
Printer Info:
Configuration: B9Creator v1.2.0, XY at 30 microns
Port: /dev/cu.usbmodem1411, Display: 2 (1920 x 1080)
Total Projector Lamp Hours: 9
MSM: 0.55, Fade: 0, Balance: 0, Slope: 0.7
Job Info:
File: /Users/Edawg/Documents/B9Creator/Calibrations/v1_2/Calibration_Print_v1_2_30xy_30z.b9j
Name: Calibration_Print_1_2_30xy_30z
XY Pixel Size: 30 µm, Slice Thickness: 30 µm
Total Layers: 108
Material Volume Solid: 1.85 ml, Liquid: 1.85 ml
Material Exposure Info:
Selected Material: B9R-2-Black
Base Exposure Time, Calculated: 0.238 secs
Over Cure Exposure Time, Calculated: 0.036 secs
Attach Base Exposure Time, Calculated: 0.596 sec
Attach Over Cure Exposure Time, Calculated: 0.089 secs
Attach Layers, Calculated: 2
Bleed Control Enabled: True

Printer Cycle Settings:
Shutter Open Speed : 70, Shutter Close Speed : 60
Pre Exposure Delay (Settle) : 3
Post Exposure Delay (Kick) : 0.2
Post Release Delay (Breathe) : 1
Pre-Release Lift (mm) : 0.3
Overlift Cutoff (mm) : 1.5, Initial Overlift (mm) : 3, Subsequent Overlift (mm) : 0.5
Dip (mm) : 0
Dynamic Vat Positioning: false
Job Position - X Offset: 0, Y Offset: 0
Mirrored: false, Show Grid: true

---------------------------------------------------------

PC JOB INFO:

Printer Info:
Configuration: B9Creator v1.2.0, XY at 30 microns
Port: COM3, Display: 2 (1920 x 1080)
Total Projector Lamp Hours: 9
MSM: 0.55, Fade: 0, Balance: 0, Slope: 0.7
Job Info:
File: C:/Users/Edawg/Documents/B9Creator/Calibrations/v1_2/Calibration_Print_v1_2_30xy_30z.b9j
Name: Calibration_Print_1_2_30xy_30z
XY Pixel Size: 30 µm, Slice Thickness: 30 µm
Total Layers: 108
Material Volume Solid: 1.85 ml, Liquid: 1.85 ml
Material Exposure Info:
Selected Material: B9R-2-Black
Base Exposure Time, Calculated: 0.238 secs
Over Cure Exposure Time, Calculated: 0.036 secs
Attach Base Exposure Time, Calculated: 0.596 sec
Attach Over Cure Exposure Time, Calculated: 0.089 secs
Attach Layers, Calculated: 2
Bleed Control Enabled: True

Printer Cycle Settings:
Shutter Open Speed : 70, Shutter Close Speed : 60
Pre Exposure Delay (Settle) : 3
Post Exposure Delay (Kick) : 0.2
Post Release Delay (Breathe) : 1
Pre-Release Lift (mm) : 0.3
Overlift Cutoff (mm) : 1.5, Initial Overlift (mm) : 3, Subsequent Overlift (mm) : 0.5
Dip (mm) : 0
Dynamic Vat Positioning: false
Job Position - X Offset: 0, Y Offset: 0
Mirrored: false, Show Grid: true
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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#15 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:06 pm

The frame rate for the projector is set to 59p Hz ("p" meaning progressive, and "i" meaning interlaced). Not sure what it should be.

Still unsure why the exposure times are different on mac than on the pc.

I printed the calibration print using the pc again. This time, to my surprise, it made it past the foundation. See the picture. Mac on bottom, PC on top.

Image
https://postimg.org/image/nchhz7947/

One thing that is certain is that the exposure time is much longer when I use the mac even though they have the same settings. I did put the focus knob all the way to the right a long time ago, but looking at the projector calibration video, I probably shouldn't have touched it! So perhaps the shorter PC exposure time is correct and it is just not as in focus as it should be. Not sure...
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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#16 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:11 pm

Watching the PC vs Mac print videos side by side, the Mac exposure time is 2.5 to 3 times longer than PC, though the period of time between vat repositionings is basically equal (ie. the amount of time between each layer is basically the same). In fact on the Mac, I notice that the vat begins moving even while the rectangular base image is being projected - and the red vat holder ends up blocking about a third of the projected image while its moving.

For the base layers, the Mac is on for over 1.5 secs, while for the PC it is less than 0.7. I'm just using my iphone stopwatch so of course its not going to be super accurate. For the higher up layers, its PC 0.3, and MAC 0.7 give or take [edited to switch mac and pc times].

Another thing I've noticed from watching the videos side by side is that for PC, I can notice those camera artifacts. Like when you record a CRT monitor with a camera, you can see horizontal lines traveling down the screen. Well with the projector, I see a horizontal line in the video slowly traveling down the screen, but only when its connected to the PC.
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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#17 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:53 am

NEW UPDATE

Looking at the measured times (from my recorded videos side by side) and comparing to the "job info," it looks like Mac is over-exposuring by 2 to 3 times the amount specified in the "job info," while PC's exposure times are correct. Yet PC's prints are much worse!

Maybe I should start from scratch - uninstall B9C from both, then calibrate the table and projector, then try to print the calibration piece on both using the factory numbers. I won't have time until the weekend. :cry:

Sorry for all the posts!
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Robert Howle
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#18 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:43 am

Make sure your video cards are running the latest updates. I would start over myself with the install and calibrations too. The delete and install only takes a couple of minutes and can't hurt.

Robert
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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#19 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:05 pm

I recalibrated the build table, then the projector. But this time to 70 micron XY. I then tried the calibration print using the PC. Nothing appeared on the build plate. So I tried with the Mac, and it half-worked. I will not try with the PC again since its never had a successful print. The B+ side of the print is ripped, thin, and fails partially. It fails just like this guy's failures: viewtopic.php?t=4411

I ended up trying the calibration 6 or 7 times, with 4 or 5 re-calibrations of the build table and projector. The reason I tried so many times is because each time I would think of some new reason of why it would fail (such as lens dusty, non-stirred resin, old resin, maybe damaged vat). And so with the last failure, I used new stirred resin, new vat, perfect calibration, etc... but in every case, the print turned out exactly the same.

I now think it has to be one of these two problems:

1) The balance is off. I guess this should have been obvious from the prints, but the printer was factory calibrated to have 0 balance and 0 fade, and it did have one successful print before.

2) The build table calibration is not happening correctly. I noticed with both vats when I looked from below that when it should have been flush with the PDMS, it was only contacting one side of the table. If I put some pressure on the side that was too high, the table would contact the pdms, but then revert back away from it when I removed the pressure. A couple times I tried to hold it in the flush position while tightening the screws, but this didn't change the printing result. I noticed that the red table doesn't move smoothly when the 4 screws are loose - the movement is rough when I do it by hand, so maybe that results in the build table not being calibrated correctly.

One last IMPORTANT bit of info: during each print, I looked from below at the build table. For every calibration print, when the projector was projecting the calibration grid onto the PDMS and when the table was close to the PDMS, I would notice that the B+ side would be more RED. Even on layer 8, when the projector was projecting the calibration image, I would notice the squares would be more RED. I'm not sure if this means that the build table was closer to the PDMS on the B+ side, or if it means that the projector light is stronger on that side.

Pictures to follow.
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prototyper
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Re: Prints fail after several layers - first prints

Post#20 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:17 pm

Image
Image

In the below pic, see the red on the right (the B+ side)? Is it because light is too bright there, or because table too close to PDMS there. This was layer one or two, but you can see this effect up to layer 8.

Image

Image

The last image makes me think the problem is the table... why else would it peel like that?
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