Print wont adhere

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sciencelookers
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Print wont adhere

Post#21 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:06 am

Thanks for sharing all this good info. It might have been bubbles the first time, but not all day. I'll keep that in mind though. Better to learn from the mistakes of others than to make your own. My build table halves don't just fall away. There is enough friction to hold it in place without the screws. It does compress down when the arm forces it against the PDMS though, and I usually give all four corners a push as well. Can't say for sure there wasn't a problem there. What I can say is this;

Results of the sort of scientific test are this. Today I tried printing with the brushed build table and the warped vat and got both parts perfectly printed and well adhered to the build table (I did the build table calibration with the vat empty and clean). I then tried printing the same two electronic enclosure endcaps with the smooth build table and your good vat (again after doing the build table calibration with the vat clean and dry). The parts did print, but both were more than 75 percent detached from the build table and curled slightly. I've seen this before. The prints are useless because they won't stay stuck to the aluminum plate I use as a mold box bottom when I make rubber molds for casting the actual endcaps we use on the electronics box.

My informal conclusion is that the smooth build table can cause problems when printing large, flat things like these box ends. I have now sampled all four conditions of vat and build table.

1. warped vat and smooth build table = lots of thin slices floating in vat

2. good vat and brushed build table = a half dozen good prints in a row.

3. warped vat and brushed build table = a good set of prints, well adhered to build table.

4. good vat and smooth build table = parts hanging on by a tiny bit, mostly detached, within a hairs breadth of becoming the train wreck I got in condition 1.

I bet if I kept printing in condition 4, I would get broken prints and a mess in the vat again. Maybe I am going too far outside the normal use of this machine. I can see why jewelers love it. The smooth finish It leaves on parts is much nicer than its stated resolution would suggest. I think a small amount of bleed actually helps make a smoother finish. Complex shapes actually print best.

That said, I think it would be nice if future build tables were made with the original brushed then anodized finish if possible. It sure looks like that brushed finish helps things adhere to the build table, at least in this worst-case scenario.

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Robert Howle
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Print wont adhere

Post#22 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:58 am

Have u made sure, with a really good soap and water cleaning after a good alcohol wash, that there is no residue from the mfg process on the build table. Just grasping at straws. It is also true that overcuring on the layers can cause curling. What layer thickness are u using and what machine and what XY. Sorry to ask again. Hard to keep up with the number of questions i try to answer (maybe not always the best answer either).

Which vats are u using. Have u tried the aluminum.
Robert
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sflores@joyeriadeplata.mx
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Print wont adhere

Post#23 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:04 pm

Hi. I hope you can help me.

I have been using 1.1 printer, red resin, 50 microns XY, several attemps at 31.6 Z slices and also 76.2 (even when I am trying to print some jewelry items). Software 1.7.3

Today I have made about 10 attempts trying to have something to adhere to the build table and I did not have any success... I am really tired at this moment of the day.

I have recalibrated build table twice (making sure table is sitting on the PDMS), I have clean this build table very well (water, soap, isopropyl), when removing screws the lower part of the build table "floated"... every step very carefully made...

I have also made several combinations with the Machine Specific Multiplier ranging from 1.1 to 2.5... The idea was not to tweak the material and exposure duration, cycle settings, etc. (that remains as default) as mentioned in other posts... (I didn't try lower values like 0.8)

I have also made tests using a foundation base and also without it... (thinking that using the foundation could be the reason that makes anything is adhering to the build table).

I also drained resin everytime...

The idea of all the above mention is because I think I have made many different combinations and I can't have anything adhere to the build table...

¿Should the new versions of the software (those above 1.6, for example 1.7.1, 1.7.2 & 1.7.3) only work with 75 microns XY using red resin only, in the V1.1 printer? I mention this because Mike is mentioning it above...

One more question. I saw the calibration of the projector for 50 microns on this 1.1 printer is the same for 1.6 software and 1.7.3 software, right? I did't move up or down the projector since I noticed there wasn't need? Do I have to check it again? If I am wrong please let me know.

What do you think? I am really concerned nothing is attaching now to my printer and I had to deliver two printing jobs today... My 2 printers V1.1 are useless now... I know I may be doing something wrong, but I am really confused. The odd thing is that when using before software 1.6 everything was working fine... I have made dozens of prints before with this same printers also using red resin, 50 XY, 26 Z...

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Robert Howle
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Print wont adhere

Post#24 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:17 pm

Are u finding debris in the vat when u strain. Post your print data from the print (go to "Help" then save last print data to clipboard). In your printer managment (under "settings" ) do u have selected v 1.1 50 xy resolution in the box for "Current Configuration"?

Mine is set up for 1.2 at 30 xy (I know this is not what u need for setting). Just wanted to make sure u knew where to look. Just checking.


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sflores@joyeriadeplata.mx
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Print wont adhere

Post#25 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:25 pm

Thank you Robert, I will send you asap the print data... nevertheless I can tell you that I do find debris in the vat (when using supports) and also the foundation layers also (when using foundation) floating on the resin... I am not sure if the first layer is adhering well or not but in the first layers is when I find this debris (and or the whole foundation) floating, thus I have to cancel the print.

That setting is indeed for v1.1 50XY...

That is why it is very confusing...

sflores@joyeriadeplata.mx
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Print wont adhere

Post#26 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:19 am

Hi:

These are my settings...

Software Version: Version 1.7.3 Copyright 2014 B9Creations, LLC www.b9creator.com

Last Comm Port: COM3
Display Index: 1
Last Print Attempt Status: Aborted
Configuration: B9Creator v1.1.0, XY at 50 microns
Job Name: C:/Users/SAMUEL/Desktop/Impresion/Cabeza Olmeca/CabezOlmecaFrenteIMPR.b9j
Job Data
Name: CabezOlmecaFrenteIMPR
XY Pixel Size: 50 µm
Slice Thickness: 76.2 µm
Total Layers: 652
Material Volume: 18.55 ml

Material Settings
ID: B9R-1-Red, Description: General purpose, lost wax suitable.
Calc Base: 3.92, Used Base: 3.92
Calc Over: 0.196, Used Over: 0.196
Calc Attach Layers: 2, Used Attach Layers: 2
Calc ABase: 9.016, Used ABase: 9.016
Calc AOver: 0.451, Used AOver: 0.451

Cycle Settings
Unsupported Pixel Multiplier: 0.8
Shutter Open Speed : 70
Shutter Close Speed : 60
Pre Exposure Delay (Settle) : 2.5
Post Exposure Delay (Kick) : 0.2
Post Release Delay (Breathe) : 1.5
Overlift Cutoff (mm) : 0.5
Initial Overlift (mm) : 3
Subsequent Overlift (mm) : 1
Dip (mm) : 0

Job Position
X Offset: 0
Y Offset: 0
Mirrored: false
Show Grid: true

I hope you can help me. I really have the need to print this ítems today... Thank you!!!

sflores@joyeriadeplata.mx
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Print wont adhere

Post#27 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:47 am

Ok I have made today about 15 printins. All of them failed... When I place very high values on the adhering layers, they form a very thick base, but after a time they fall off (some aisled very thick supports remain adhered, but not the main base). When I place default time for adhering layers, they just do not adhere not even the aisled supports... This is becoming really anoying... I wish I would not update the software to newer versions... I will try now with overlift values, maybe the small values are not helping me, I hope the problem could be at the waterfall end...

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Robert Howle
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Print wont adhere

Post#28 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:29 am

Why don't u print with the cherry at default for 30 micron layers? If this does not work then we will know something is wrong. Don't know why u are printing such thick layers. The reason I say this is because of the success with 50 xy and 30 Z using pure cherry or 1:1 red/cherry mix. Prob none of the jewelers here have any experience with your chosen layer thickness (I could be wrong). Maybe one of the model builders can help u at 76.2 Z.

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sflores@joyeriadeplata.mx
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Print wont adhere

Post#29 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:02 am

Hi Robert:

Thank you very much for your help. Actually I sliced at 76 microns since I thought was the "standard" for red resin. Nevertheless, I have made the following tests. I have sliced thiner, etc. No way to adhere something to the build table:

Software Version: Version 1.7.3 Copyright 2014 B9Creations, LLC www.b9creator.com

Last Comm Port: COM3
Display Index: 1
Last Print Attempt Status: Completed
Configuration: B9Creator v1.1.0, XY at 50 microns
Job Name: C:/Users/SAMUEL/Desktop/Impresion/Cabeza Olmeca/CabezOlmecaFrenteIMPR.b9j
Job Data
Name: CabezOlmecaFrenteIMPR
XY Pixel Size: 50 µm
Slice Thickness: 31.75 µm
Total Layers: 1571
Material Volume: 22.93 ml

Material Settings
ID: Copy-B9R-1-Red, Description: General purpose, lost wax suitable.
Calc Base: 4.707, Used Base: 4.707
Calc Over: 0.235, Used Over: 0.235
Calc Attach Layers: 3, Used Attach Layers: 3
Calc ABase: 38.127, Used ABase: 38.127
Calc AOver: 1.903, Used AOver: 1.903

Cycle Settings
Unsupported Pixel Multiplier: 0.8
Shutter Open Speed : 70
Shutter Close Speed : 60
Pre Exposure Delay (Settle) : 2.5
Post Exposure Delay (Kick) : 0.2
Post Release Delay (Breathe) : 1.5
Overlift Cutoff (mm) : 0.5
Initial Overlift (mm) : 3
Subsequent Overlift (mm) : 1
Dip (mm) : 0

Job Position
X Offset: 0
Y Offset: 0
Mirrored: false
Show Grid: true



****************************************************************************************************

Software Version: Version 1.7.3 Copyright 2014 B9Creations, LLC www.b9creator.com

Last Comm Port: COM3
Display Index: 1
Last Print Attempt Status: Completed
Configuration: B9Creator v1.1.0, XY at 50 microns
Job Name: C:/Users/SAMUEL/Desktop/Impresion/Cabeza Olmeca/CabezOlmecaFrenteIMPR.b9j
Job Data
Name: CabezOlmecaFrenteIMPR
XY Pixel Size: 50 µm
Slice Thickness: 31.75 µm
Total Layers: 1571
Material Volume: 22.93 ml

Material Settings
ID: Copy-B9R-1-Red, Description: General purpose, lost wax suitable.
Calc Base: 4.554, Used Base: 4.554
Calc Over: 0.228, Used Over: 0.228
Calc Attach Layers: 2, Used Attach Layers: 2
Calc ABase: 27.324, Used ABase: 27.324
Calc AOver: 1.368, Used AOver: 1.368

Cycle Settings
Unsupported Pixel Multiplier: 0.8
Shutter Open Speed : 70
Shutter Close Speed : 60
Pre Exposure Delay (Settle) : 2.5
Post Exposure Delay (Kick) : 0.2
Post Release Delay (Breathe) : 1.5
Overlift Cutoff (mm) : 0.5
Initial Overlift (mm) : 3
Subsequent Overlift (mm) : 1
Dip (mm) : 0

Job Position
X Offset: 0
Y Offset: 0
Mirrored: false
Show Grid: true




**************************************************************************************+


Software Version: Version 1.7.3 Copyright 2014 B9Creations, LLC www.b9creator.com

Last Comm Port: COM3
Display Index: 1
Last Print Attempt Status: Completed
Configuration: B9Creator v1.1.0, XY at 50 microns
Job Name: C:/Users/SAMUEL/Desktop/Impresion/Cabeza Olmeca/CabezOlmecaFrenteIMPR.b9j
Job Data
Name: CabezOlmecaFrenteIMPR
XY Pixel Size: 50 µm
Slice Thickness: 31.75 µm
Total Layers: 1571
Material Volume: 22.93 ml

Material Settings
ID: B9R-1-Red, Description: General purpose, lost wax suitable.
Calc Base: 3.878, Used Base: 3.878
Calc Over: 0.194, Used Over: 0.194
Calc Attach Layers: 2, Used Attach Layers: 2
Calc ABase: 8.919, Used ABase: 8.919
Calc AOver: 0.446, Used AOver: 0.446

Cycle Settings
Unsupported Pixel Multiplier: 0.8
Shutter Open Speed : 70
Shutter Close Speed : 60
Pre Exposure Delay (Settle) : 2.5
Post Exposure Delay (Kick) : 0.2
Post Release Delay (Breathe) : 1.5
Overlift Cutoff (mm) : 0.5
Initial Overlift (mm) : 3
Subsequent Overlift (mm) : 1
Dip (mm) : 0

Job Position
X Offset: 0
Y Offset: 0
Mirrored: false
Show Grid: true

**************************************************************************************+

Software Version: Version 1.7.3 Copyright 2014 B9Creations, LLC www.b9creator.com

Last Comm Port: COM3
Display Index: 1
Last Print Attempt Status: Aborted
Configuration: B9Creator v1.1.0, XY at 50 microns
Job Name: C:/Users/SAMUEL/Desktop/Impresion/Cabeza Olmeca/CabezOlmecaFrenteIMPR.b9j
Job Data
Name: CabezOlmecaFrenteIMPR
XY Pixel Size: 50 µm
Slice Thickness: 31.75 µm
Total Layers: 1571
Material Volume: 22.93 ml

Material Settings
ID: Copy-B9R-1-Red, Description: General purpose, lost wax suitable.
Calc Base: 4.554, Used Base: 4.554
Calc Over: 0.228, Used Over: 0.228
Calc Attach Layers: 2, Used Attach Layers: 2
Calc ABase: 18.216, Used ABase: 18.216
Calc AOver: 0.912, Used AOver: 0.912

Cycle Settings
Unsupported Pixel Multiplier: 0.8
Shutter Open Speed : 70
Shutter Close Speed : 60
Pre Exposure Delay (Settle) : 2.5
Post Exposure Delay (Kick) : 0.2
Post Release Delay (Breathe) : 1.5
Overlift Cutoff (mm) : 0.5
Initial Overlift (mm) : 3
Subsequent Overlift (mm) : 1
Dip (mm) : 0

Job Position
X Offset: 0
Y Offset: 0
Mirrored: false
Show Grid: true

********************************************************************************************



Software Version: Version 1.7.3 Copyright 2014 B9Creations, LLC www.b9creator.com

Last Comm Port: COM3
Display Index: 1
Last Print Attempt Status: Aborted
Configuration: B9Creator v1.1.0, XY at 50 microns
Job Name: C:/Users/SAMUEL/Desktop/Impresion/Cabeza Olmeca/CabezOlmecaFrenteIMPR.b9j
Job Data
Name: CabezOlmecaFrenteIMPR
XY Pixel Size: 50 µm
Slice Thickness: 31.75 µm
Total Layers: 1571
Material Volume: 22.93 ml

Material Settings
ID: Copy-B9R-1-Red, Description: General purpose, lost wax suitable.
Calc Base: 4.71, Used Base: 4.71
Calc Over: 0.236, Used Over: 0.236
Calc Attach Layers: 2, Used Attach Layers: 2
Calc ABase: 11.775, Used ABase: 11.775
Calc AOver: 0.59, Used AOver: 0.59

Cycle Settings
Unsupported Pixel Multiplier: 0.8
Shutter Open Speed : 70
Shutter Close Speed : 60
Pre Exposure Delay (Settle) : 2.5
Post Exposure Delay (Kick) : 0.2
Post Release Delay (Breathe) : 1.5
Overlift Cutoff (mm) : 0.5
Initial Overlift (mm) : 5
Subsequent Overlift (mm) : 3
Dip (mm) : 0

Job Position
X Offset: 0
Y Offset: 0
Mirrored: false
Show Grid: true

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james c.
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Posts: 17

Print wont adhere

Post#30 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:48 am

I to am also having Problems with it sticking to the build table. I am using 100% Cherry resin on the 30 Microns setting and slicing at 25. I have had limited success in the past. It started with a new PDMS table and had no success with it sticking at all. I switched to my second build table and it began to stick but then every time it would begin to peal off or curl and the file would end up warped. I have tried re slicing the same items. not sure what to try next.I have calibrated may time and always strain my liquid after every grow. Maybe change out all the PDMS? Help
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james c.
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Print wont adhere

Post#31 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:48 am

I to am also having Problems with it sticking to the build table. I am using 100% Cherry resin on the 30 Microns setting and slicing at 25. I have had limited success in the past. It started with a new PDMS table and had no success with it sticking at all. I switched to my second build table and it began to stick but then every time it would begin to peal off or curl and the file would end up warped. I have tried re slicing the same items. not sure what to try next.I have calibrated may time and always strain my liquid after every grow. Maybe change out all the PDMS? Help
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Image

sflores@joyeriadeplata.mx
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Print wont adhere

Post#32 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:14 am

James. At least you can adhere something... :-) In my case I do not understand what is happening. In the past (software 1.6) I have made dozens of prints... now I can't make even one... Can you share your settings? You know, via help, "copy last print settings to clipboard"....

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behold3d
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Print wont adhere

Post#33 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:34 am

Ok for @sflores@jo-yeriadepla-ta.mx I am not sure this matters but I think that slice thickness only works best at 100 micron calibration.
But if you adjusted your machine specific multiplier to 2.5?! you should have gotten some curing or some floating debris.
I know in 1.7.2 the software did not allow you to adjust past 1.5.
It would allow you to enter whatever number you wanted but it would adjust to the maximum when saved.
Ensure that is not happening.

If your pdms is cloudy, or lens dirty it may slow down some of your cure. I also believe that if you adjusted your msm to higher than 1.5 you would be seeing some degradation in the pdms and cloudiness after so many attempts.

If your msm is cranked
set you msm to the highest you can. double check that it is in fact what you set it to and slice thinner to see what thickness will cure. Increment down till you get results. use a small model so you can iterate quickly

I printed as low as 12.7 z when i was having similar issues. it took forever but it worked

@james c. whats your msm set to?

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behold3d
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Print wont adhere

Post#34 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:37 am

James c you may want to start a new thread

sflores@joyeriadeplata.mx
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Print wont adhere

Post#35 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:21 pm

Thank you behold3d. Yes at 2.5 MSM I have lot of cured layers floating all over the resin. I will go back to 76 z. I was slicing in 31.6... Red resin, 50 XY. I will work witn 76 z. I will run a new round of tests...

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behold3d
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Print wont adhere

Post#36 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:07 pm

@sflores how is your pdms applied? Did you do the waterfall? if so ensure you do not have a raised lip that is pushing your builds from the table?

if you are at 2.5 msm and getting cured resin that is not adhering to the previous layer then you should slice thinner

You may start at 76z but if it does not work increment thinner after every attempt. You may have a week bulb. That is what i had.

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Robert Howle
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Print wont adhere

Post#37 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:10 pm

Just another thought but if the attach layers are overcured they will curl and peel away from the build table.

I still don't understand why, when u see all the posts for great prints using defaut settings for the Cherry resin at 50 xy and 30 Z that u dont' get some cherry and print something. The red has always been for thicker slices, but thicker slices are not what u want with jewelry. Get some cherry. It is so much eaiser to help with jewelry printing when u are using same resin and settings as many of us are doing. It's just makes sense.

Always wiling to help, but can only comment or help with what I have been working with for the last 14 months.

Robert
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behold3d
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Print wont adhere

Post#38 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:11 pm

Robert... is he printing jewelry?

/Impresion/Cabeza Olmeca/CabezOlmecaFrenteIMPR.b9j

His files look like teeth impressions

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behold3d
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Print wont adhere

Post#39 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:11 pm

;)

Love these double posts

all I can do is edit them and make them look like I am not stupid

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Robert Howle
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Print wont adhere

Post#40 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:21 pm

Not sure behold, but at those attach layer thicknes and in some cases 3 layers, then if they are overcured they will start to curl.

Sorry I was answering James C. Should have said so.

Even if not jewelry, one way to check the machine is to try what is working for so many of us for so long.
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