Hello world

A general purpose resin tuned for 20 - 200 micron slice thickness
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CarterTG
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Hello world

Post#1 » Sun May 24, 2015 3:46 pm

Just thought I'd post some appropriate black resin calibration macro shots in this new subforum...

IMG_1019.JPG

IMG_1020.JPG
Detail so crisp, I wanna eat it like a potato chip!

IMG_1021.JPG

IMG_1022.JPG
TRYING hard to see if there are any hints of lego-bricking.


These are all the shots I'll have for now until I can figure out my persistent configuration issue

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Robert Howle
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Re: Hello world

Post#2 » Mon May 25, 2015 2:33 am

Good to see u are around "Carter".
Dance like nobody's watching!

PeregrineStudios
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Re: Hello world

Post#3 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:56 am

Sort of off-topic, but damn, those are some nice pictures! Mike should have you on commission, those pics may have persuaded me to try some black resin.

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Poco Tazio
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Re: Hello world

Post#4 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:37 am

Those prints look pretty amazing. So is the black resin UV cured? Heat cured? I couldn't find that info on the product data page, though I may have missed it. What are you doing to cure your pieces?

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Poco Tazio
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Re: Hello world

Post#5 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:39 am

How are you curing your black resin pieces?

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Robert Howle
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Re: Hello world

Post#6 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:10 pm

I cured my black prints when testing in the oven with slow ramping. I know the factory cured with UV lamp.

Robert
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Furqueron
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Re: Hello world

Post#7 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:49 am

Hi Carter,

Warning..total noob to B9 here, so new haven't hit the 'buy' button yet :-) I've been reading the B9 forums over the last week or so and waiting for some test prints from a B9 ordered through 3dhubs.

I saw you're dragon ring prints in another thread which were great reference as our (my oldest son and I) intended use will be printing figures in the15mm to 50mm'ish range.

Couple of questions if I may:

1) on you prints with B9 black (here and with the dragon ring print in "Macro lens exploration of detail" thread). Looks like in both instances you're printing at 30xy 30z, correct? On the B9 black product page its showing "Pigmented for 70 - 120 micron layer thickness". Are you using the black resin straight or are you adding any additional pigments to print at 30z?

2) in reference to the dragon ring from the other thread, printed in both black and cherry. From what I can see in the photos, it looks like cherry gave an overall smoother and more detailed print...is this a correct impression? I'm looking particularly at the nails and knuckle area of the prints in the photos.

TIA,

Jesse

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CarterTG
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Black vs Cherry

Post#8 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:36 pm

Welcome to the B9 sphere Jesse

Usually when I assemble my posts, I try to cross-reference pages to make sure I'm not mis-interpreting things. Like you, I did a double-take when the B9R-2-Black product page mentioned the "Pigmented for 70-120". In fact, I had been so excited at the announcement of Black resin, that I had glossed over its actual specs and presumed it went wayyyyy lower than 25 microns. When it came time to re-slice my STL mesh for the newer v1.2 printer, the 1.80 software's listing for Black Material suggested the lowest I can go is 30 micron slices. So the way Mike Joyce phrased the product, I'm presuming is following some norm established elsewhere. All I know is Black can hit 30 microns in thickness (thinness?) with no adverse effects. I believe the software allows overriding the suggestions where you can slice and print thinner, but some hints from other posts might indicate the control of light bleed would provide no gains.

I've set the projector distance on my v1.2 to the 30 micron X-Y setting and being a fine-detail snob, will be highly reluctant to change that. IOW, regardless of what resin I chose down the road, my prints will always be 30 microns in the X-Y direction for each projected layer.

In the end, I sliced and printed 30 micron layers for the Black resin print. Nothing mixed. Straight outta the jug.

In the Cherry resin print, the B9 software indicated it can do 25 microns, so that's what the STL got re-sliced at. 30 microns X-Y (locked), and 25 micron Z slices.

As to relying on images. The model started as a Sculptris sculpt. By it's origins, it has organic undulations on the surface - NOT topologically flat. There are far too many factors to list that drastically changes what I shoot, what you see, what you get. I'll try to touch on a few...

If we truly want to take everything into account here, it should be noted that Black Resin Dragon Print was the SECOND EVER object to be printed on the newly assembled machine. Print #1 was the calibration peg forest (shown above). As automobile engines have a break-in period, I would posit that the new parts on a B9 might need a few prints to harmonize with each other. By the time Red Dragon was printed, the machine had over 20 prints under it's belt.

Black resin's nature of the thresholds where it absorbs & reflects light causes it to look more contrasty. A small rotational shift causes an undulation to either be exacerbated or disappear. This also applies to the "legobricking" effect.

By now, I've seen the results of enough B9 castings to know that despite what I see from the photographs, the grow layer lines get mitigated considerably. Run the gold or silver casting under a fine-polish buffing wheel and you'd be lucky to see any grow lines survive the process.

However smooth the Cherry photo might appear, it does contain some topological fidelity that the lighting doesn't show. IOW, Cherry photos turn out overly smooth and doesn't always convey the sculpted undulations that are actually there.

In the end, the B9 Creator and its resins produce detail that requires some serious heavy-duty magnification to both appreciate and pick apart. Contrast this with FDM prints where the un-aided naked eye easily picks out the layer lines.

If the underlying question is whether Black or Cherry provides the tremendously greater amount of detail, my answer after weighing all the factors into play is that both are too close to make a summary judgment. Thankfully, it's not like you are forced to make a set-in-stone Sophie's Choice. Once the initial calibrations are done, the B9 Printer and Software make bouncing back and forth between Black and Cherry resins a breeze. Get an additional vat & build table for the 2nd resin and try both. For miniature figures, I think you'll come to the same conclusion that the in-person comparison is too close. The only other deciding factors will then be whether you favor castability over speed. Cherry provides the former. Black will complete the print in roughly 20% faster time. In a production environment where the resin print itself is the 'product', Black resin might allow at least one more build platform's worth of prints in a given workday AND because of the shorter per-layer exposure, stretch out the interval of changing the PDMS.

1129 layers of the Dragon Print sliced at 30 microns takes:
4 hours 27 minutes to print in Cherry
4 hours 16 minutes to print in 1:1 Red/Cherry mix
3 hours 40 minutes to print in Black

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Robert Howle
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Re: Hello world

Post#9 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:38 pm

Just a note: the new 1.8 software "knows" where the print is in the build area. After initial layers 2 or 3 mm, don't remember, the vat only moves far enough to release the last printed layer (short cycle). Every 16 layers it does a complete cycle (full movement in x direction) to mitigate any cycle abnormalities/drift.

If u note the print time at the start of a print (if the build area is not "full", end to end) you will see the print time be reduced as the print progresses, and the software recalculates (finish time will update). I have started prints that actually took 30 min less (and even more) than the estimated print time. If u write down the estimated finish time when u start the print (clock time) u will see the difference when finished. The maximum reduction in total build time results from a model layout being placed so that the build takes place on the left side (end) of the build table (build area).

Just FYI. If u are building any models with any small details don't select the DVP (dynamic vat positioning) it is off by default. This addition to the software varies the position of the window, therefore exposing diff areas of the PDMS (to increase PDMS life). Due to slight variations in PDMS thickness the accompanying refractive index can vary enough to "shift" the layer being projected. On thicker sliced (ex: 200z using black) prints primarily for prototyping, then it is pretty much a non issue.

Just wanted to share.

Robert Howle
Dance like nobody's watching!

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Robert Howle
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Re: Hello world

Post#10 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:17 pm

Don't know why u went through 3d hubs, but I offer free prints an shipping (domestic only) at 30xy and 30 z.

Usually 2 day service to interested parties trying to decide on a 3d printer. Should mention I am a B9 distributor located on the east coast of US.

Robert Howle

howlere@gmail.com
Dance like nobody's watching!

Furqueron
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Posts: 3

Re: Hello world

Post#11 » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:10 am

When I first saw the B9 black, I'd fallen into the trap of assuming it was for high-res Z slicing, not speed. So raised an eyebrow when I was the z slice specs. Got conditioned to that I guess as I've talked to several DLP printer users (in this case none were B9 users) whom are adding additional black pigments to their resins to reduce light bleed to get 15-20z prints. Based on what I'm seeing, initially we'll likely start with Cherry and go from there, if nothing else its cheaper to learn the B9 with ;-)

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