Puzzled yet again

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jljr99
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Puzzled yet again

Post#1 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:39 am

Using 1:1, 30xyz, settings are attached, msm attached, using NuVat.


I find it extremely odd that that I can turn down the msm to the point that the top right 1999 does not form yet the bottom left 1999 bleeds itself together.

You can see in the cad drawing the bottom left 1999 clearly has spacing between the number yet I can not get the print to stop bleeding that together. Small text such as this is important when making things such as class rings.


In the 0.8msm the bottom left bleed together yet the top right is missing part of the last two 9's. The top right missing is even stranger in that at lower msm it does form,,,, occasionally.

In the 0.5msm almost nothing solidified yet the bottom left has the three 9's still bleed together.

In the 0.6msm the bottom left 1999 bleed together while the top right again is not forming. The top right did form a couple times.

Seriously baffled as to why I can not get space between number do to bleed and at the same time other areas don't form. It's like there is a minimum thickness needed and a specific distance from objects required.


Are my NuVat 1:1 settings correct?

Thank you
Jim
Attachments
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marios.jewelry.service@gmail.com
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#2 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:03 pm

Looks like a hot spot problem to me. I used a file made by Tim Yoshi to calibrate my 1.1 machine shortly after the 1.7 software came out.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:357038

Also

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2106&p=23409&hilit=normalization+slope#p23409

for a bit of explanation. I think there are other threads that have a bit more detail, but the basics are there.

jljr99
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#3 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:25 pm

Thank you. I just downloaded the print calibration and will use that for testing.

I have been printing all day and it's just extremely frustrating. It's like there is a target that is impossible to hit. Parts are either not going to solidify or over solidify there is no sweet spot. The only adjustment for that,, that I'm aware of is MSM which is not doing the trick. Again, either things bond or the wash out. Plus 10% or nothing.


After installing the NuVat I was thinking, finally no cloudy PDMS to diffuse light, now I'll get the sharp chrisp prints but that just isn't proving to be the case. In fact about 40% of the prints with NuVat have layers stuck to the glass.

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tim.yoshi
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#4 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:49 am

Well for me it's for sure the hot spot problem. You could calibrate by either my old model made for v1.1, or original one made by Mike and in fact located in everybody's computer at "C:\Users\YOUR-USERNAME\Documents\B9Creator\Calibrations" (windows 7 My Documents folder).

Or even just make yourself one - it should contain pillars with same diameter across all the build table. Mike suggests that most precisely it could be made on the 70xy (v1.2) or 100xy (v1.1) i.e. the biggest build size. And then play with the balance and fade settings. And yes - it could be long - it could take 5-10 or even 20 prints to adjust satisfactory.
And don't forget that one should make at least 20-30 minutes pause between turning off-on the projector i.e. after print finished let it cool down for 30 minutes before next print.
Image

jljr99
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#5 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:46 am

You are using terms I am not familiar with. I will search the form for those, BUT you mention balance and fade adjustment for hot spots.

I assume a hot spot is something with the lens or the NuVat and that adjustments can be made by manipulating the balance and fade. Where is the balance and fade adjustments? Again, I will search these terms in the forum as well.

Thank you very much
Jim

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Robert Howle
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#6 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:30 am

If u look underneath the machine while printing. The "hot spot" is really the center of the "Bloom" or "Eclipse". This can be shifted front to back with the "fade" setting. The adjustment left to right is "Balance" just like on a stereo.

Example: When u move the balance to the right (center of bloom) u are adding cure time to left pixels. The "bloom" or "eclipse" is turning off pixels. I was getting undercure on my 1.2 machine on right
Brightness on left side 1.JPG
side of prints (this is looking under the machine). I moved the "balance" by changing the setting from 1.000 (default) to .500. This corrected the problem.

I could see that the projected grid was brighter on the left (looking under the machine). See attached image.

These adjustments can be made in "Settings">"Printer settings" (top of App when u open it).

Robert Howle
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jljr99
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#7 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:52 am

Ok. So that is why people are printing those calibration sheets (for lack of a better word) with all the measurable and repeated shapes. That is so I can tell from side to side front to back if all my shapes measure the same. If one side is heavy and another side is light then I need to make a balance and/or fade to even that.


I will do that. I guess it would be best to put set MSM to 1.0 for the calibration sheet text print?


That doesn't seem like it will fix my problem with close structures welding to each other, but fixing issues is the first step.

Robert, can you take a look at the print settings in the pic I posted? Again, 1:1, v1.2, 30xyz, with Nuvat.

Thank you Jim

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Robert Howle
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#8 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:16 pm

Don't really see any issues but you need to make all the adjustments to get the projected image and pixel exposure corrected first. Then we can worry about the issues of settings for specific kinds of printing.

Robert
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jljr99
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#9 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:59 pm

OK that wasn't any good.

I did that calibration print only to have the first attaching layer weld the build table to the glass and bind until the print failed. I unscrewed the build table strained the resin back into the container, slide the build table off, cleaned everything then repeated that disaster 2 more times.
As it sits the Nuvat glass that I installed 2 days ago is coming lose. So that ends my failed attempt at trying to get my printer to print anything usable until I can get the 1 vat I have resealed.

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akgold
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#10 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:54 pm

in the case of the NuVat glass being damaged I would remove it and turn it 180 deg and reglue it
you can use the unused portion of the glass.

I would also look to see if you have the focus correct and whether or not your projector is level/parallel with the glass itself.
level the machine by placing a small 2 or three way level in the middle of the glass in the open exposure position like you would if you were focusing.
check to see if then move it to the lens itself and see if it is level.
if not adjust the projector as necessary.
then refocus and see how it does.
I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

jljr99
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#11 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:39 pm

I think the glass itself is fine, the bead pulled up a little. I could see when wiping out the resin after un-sticking the build table that the bead was moving slightly. I must have been well on my way to having the glass pull off and resin washing the projector like what happened to Mike.


I'm pretty certain, level and focus are good. 2 days ago when installing the NuVat I completely disassemble the projector level and focused the machine very meticulously. My thought was with a NuVat glass, not PDMS cloud I'm going to have the most crisp printing B9 ever. So with that in mind I really did my best to set it up properly.


What do you think about printing that calibration sheet? Obviously it's going to cause too much build table to glass NuVat glass adhesion for me to do that print. I can't lesson the attach layer time or the layer wont attach to the build table and will stick to the glass. I guess the NuVat glass is going to be too porous or a full layer print.

Good idea on rotating the NuVat if damaged.

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akgold
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#12 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:28 pm

I didn't see how many initial layers your printing but I use 2 and they are .05 I think.
I too used that model to calibrate and the motor grunted a little coming off the first few layers but went fine after that.
considering the possibility of resin spill into projector may be one of the reasons other printers use mirrors.

I can't imagine how much time it would take to calibrate 2 mirrors and a projector too.

anyway with the NuVat I have not had issues other than my build table going out of calibration causing the model to adhere to the NuVat. All three times I gently peeled the resin off the window.

Don't what else I can say I have never had to mess with the MSM settings I have been pretty satisfied once I got it all tuned in.
I don't change any thing for any reason.
Last edited by akgold on Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

jljr99
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#13 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:34 pm

The initial layer settings are left stock but I will check that out before printing the calibration again. Mine is set for 2 initial layers.


I don't think that there is a major concern of resin spilling under normal circumstances.

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Metalcaster
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#14 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:17 am

Hi,
The evert glass is the correct size for the older acrylic trays... cut out the acrylic area and glue the Evert glass on top of the cut away acrylic. Works perfect for that purpose.

I do not know if he cut new glass to fit the aluminum trays ( I don't think he did) and my glass came loose on my aluminum tray... I was lucky to be there at the moment it happened and I got a collector under the tray before any spillage . PURE LUCK !

I highly recommend his glass to be used on the older acrylic trays as the glass is cut to the exact size of the acrylic trays.

jljr99
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#15 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:36 am

I have the Aluminium VAT with the NuVat glass.

What happened with me is that while printing the calibration stl the full length and width (56mm x 30mm) of the 30xy print area was made. That initial layer caused the build table and the glass to both adhere equally which pulled at the glass and broke the glass to vat bead in one corner. It isn't a major break down, I'm going to try back filling silicon in the separation area.

What I am going to do..

Double check my settings with Mike's 1:1 NuVat 30xyz settings. But I'm also going to draw a series of holes in the calibration stl so that there is not as much surface area.
It may be possible that the NuVat ins't as slick as PDMS but that should not be a issue as you are never going to print the entire 56mm x 30mm surface at one time. My thinking is that sharp and crisp prints with far superior life over PDMS is well worth some sacrifice in surface area that I would most likely never use anyway.
Having said all that, I need to insure my settings are what Mike has found to work best. It's possible I missed something and overexposed the initial layer binding the glass and build table. Settings will be checked tonight.

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mikej
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#16 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:40 am

jljr99 wrote: It may be possible that the NuVat ins't as slick as PDMS...


It's not about slickness, or non-stick, or anything else. The coating must inhibit the cure of the resin, thus leaving a thin, uncured lubricating layer to slide on. To do that, the coating must be oxygen permeable (like pdms).
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

jljr99
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#17 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:19 am

I'm stuck with the Nuvat glass on my VAT. 3 days ago I epoxied the white bars in place on the vat, those are not coming off. The earth will be engulfed by the sun but those bars will still be on that vat. I'll need wait until the VATs are ready to ship to do testing with PDMS.

At this point I will have to put relief holes in the calibration stl so there isn't as much surface area, hopefully the initial layers will release and the machine can be adjusted on.

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Metalcaster
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#18 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:19 pm

You can probably pour pdms on top of the nuvat coating ...
Wish we could see what you are trying to print so we could offer advice.

jljr99
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#19 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:41 pm

I attached a pic of the calibration stl. This is going to show me balance and fade if I understand correctly. After printing this I should be able to compare all the 1mm squares, if anything over or under cures, if spots bleed in specific areas.



There is a link to download this that someone posted but I'm not seeing it.
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Capture.PNG

jljr99
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Re: Puzzled yet again

Post#20 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:08 pm

There, the attached is maybe 40% less surface area. Hopefully that will release from the NuVat glass.
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