Deep Black testing

General materials & resin discussions
andreas
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Deep Black testing

Post#1 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:24 am

Hello community,
i would like to try some other high definition resins apart from b9 cherry that i am currently using,
i am printing mostly figures/miniatures full of details in 30_Layout / 30_slice .so quality/time efficiency is the goal..

Cherry is really good in capturing all the quality BUT in my case and for my specific needs i think that

1.its really slow specially when you slice at 30z with increased settle/breathe times .
this also ruins the pdms life

2.it requires a perfect z calibration..does not forgive anything

3.it has some "light bleed" which eventually blurs the micro-details that you tried so hard to print.

4.its too expensive when you add the shipping cost to Greece

So after doing some research i found the "Fun to Do Castable /Fun to Do deep black that seems to have all the characteristics that i am looking for and also is available in Greece.
I talked with the company guys that assured me that it can print 30xy_30z with less exposure times/less light bleed.i asked them if they have a profile for B9 but they did not.

So my question is has anyone print figures or miniatures with both cherry/ and Fun to do ?
and if yes how they compare in terms of quality ..?
Any input on that would be much appreciated

Thanks for watching,
Andreas
Last edited by andreas on Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

andreas
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Re: Fun to do Deep Black VS Cherry question

Post#2 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:03 am

so guys it seems that no one ever used the Deep Black resin..
tomorrow i will start testing it ..lets see

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Metalcaster
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Re: Fun to do Deep Black VS Cherry question

Post#3 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:43 am

Hi Andreas,
Craig Turley is the US distributor and he has a b9 ...
I think he still has it. I suggest you email Craig directly. He may have the settings you need.
studioqubed@gmail.com

Or you could try B9 Black !
Good luck
Daniel Grandi
metalcaster

andreas
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Re: Fun to do Deep Black VS Cherry question

Post#4 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:53 am

Hello Metalcaster,

Yes i have send him a personal message yesterday,but no response..
also i have emailed the resin company ,but no answer
Thanks for the email you give me ,i will try it also.
Regarding why i dont choose black ,first its too expensive and secondly i like to experiment .
Also a friend of mine which has a high price printer is using it and he is really happy..
Thank you for your reply..
Andreas

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Metalcaster
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Re: Fun to do Deep Black VS Cherry question

Post#5 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:47 pm

He also does Shows and such so it may take a couple days for a response.
Good luck with your projects.

andreas
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#6 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:53 am

Hello guys,
i have started testing the FTD "Deep Black" resin and i am getting great results so far.
its faster and far more less light bleed
Below is a gun print at 30 Layout_50 slice
Image

One strange thing .. even though i have dropped the msm from 1,2 to 0,8 the pdms is wearing more fast.
Can this be caused by the OVER CURE Multiplier in Material settings?
I have set it in 1.000 like cherry but this resin is more viscous almost like milk.
so i am guessing it has less pigment?
so my question is how far i change the overcure multiplier ( i have noticed that red resin uses 2,0 multiplier) and can this overcure multiplier be responsible for the faster wear of PDMS??

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mikej
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#7 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:36 am

The overcure allows you to cure the perimeter longer in an attempt to cure the bulk (center) shorter. So if you increase the overcure AND decrease the base cure you may be able to prolong pdms life. But changing overcure alone won't effect pdms life much as it only effects the perimeter pixels.
It's possible pdms life is being effected by the pigments and chemicals in the resin. Viscosity is not related to pigment in most cases.
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

andreas
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#8 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:57 am

Mike thank you for your reply and your valuable info
I feel also that this resins chemicals are responsible for the wear at the pdms.

Do you think that adding some height to pdms will make a difference in slowing down the wear ?

Below are some 30_layout_30slice prints using the Deep Black
i am really amazed with the crispness of the detail and low light bleed i am getting so far.


Image

Image

Image

Image

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mikej
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#9 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:55 am

andreas wrote:Mike thank you for your reply and your valuable info
I feel also that this resins chemicals are responsible for the wear at the pdms.

Do you think that adding some height to pdms will make a difference in slowing down the wear ?


No, the damage to pdms is at the surface. Thicker pdms will not help.
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

andreas
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#10 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:28 am

I have noticed that as i decrease the over cure multiplier from 1,5 to 0,8 the build lines are disappearing .
which really boosts the quality.
i have also print in 0,5 overcure and noticed exactly the same thing

is there a limit i can reach if i try to lower more and is there anything else related to this setting that
i have to pay attention to?

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mikej
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#11 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:58 am

Since you are manually determining your exposure times, a good rule of thumb is "less is more". Try setting overcure very low (you can go to zero if you wish) and decreasing base until the print starts to fail. Then increase the over a bit to see if you find a minimum base/over combination that gives the best result with the least exposure. Typically that will give both the best print quality and the longest pdms life.
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

andreas
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#12 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:49 am

Thank you mike ..
i am printing now following your advise to determine the best over and base times.

A quick question please.

How does MSM affect all of these parameters?
If i understand correctly when we adjust the exposure parameters manually , we override the msm values..
is this correct info?

i am currently testing with msm 0.850 .
if i change that lets say to 1.0 msm then i have to do the same procedure for finding the optimal values for the specific msm?
or it really does not matter cause the printer is using a "defaullt"?? msm when the values are manually overridden ?

Would it be better not to adjust manually ,
but adjust the exposure factor in the material settings until the exposure values are ok?
so the software will calculate automatically
in this way msm can be changed,right?

Thank you ..

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mikej
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#13 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:21 am

MSM is used along with values in the material catalog, lamp hours & machine type to calculate over and base times. Entering them manually overrides that, so MSM has no effect. Balance, Fade and Slope are still used to position and adjust the image.

If you find a base and over that work, you can create a new material in the library and use the factor tool to create factors that result in the correct base and over times for current machine (assuming you have already used another known resin to calibrate your machine's specific multiplier - MSM).
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

andreas
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#14 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:27 am

so is it better to adjust the exposure factor in material settings for adjusting base exposure
and overcure multiplier to adjust over exposure ,so that the software calculates automatically and
the msm is not overridden in this way?

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mikej
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#15 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:38 am

Sure, but you must first find settings that work manually if you are going to have any hope of figuring out generic settings.
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

evshipard
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#16 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:15 pm

Great to see Andreas. How have your results been with setting up a profile for this resin? I'm looking at a Cherry alternative for both speed and cost. I have some FunToDo red that I'm keen to try after my current project is finished. The Deep Black looks great- I am also doing small parts for figures.

Why have you secured a panel to your build plate- is this so parts can be removed easier? I had a look through the topic but couldn't find any mention of it.
cheers,

andreas
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#17 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:26 am

Hello evshipard,

I am testing the Deep Black resin for a month now..
I am really - really happy with the quality,
So far i am getting much better prints than cherry which is really encouraging
cause i am still experimenting with different material/printer settings combinations
i have done even 10z slices with really great results..

The viscosity is like milk and it feels much more "thinner" than cherry
A big difference with cherry is the much faster post curing times and cleaner prints i am getting.
After you remove the print and wash it there is NONE debris on it..
with cherry i was getting all kind of "floating debris" stuck on my print all the time ,
which i had a really difficult time trying to remove them without destroying the details of the print.
DO NOT ultrasonic the Deep Black resin..you destroy the print.
Just tap water and dish soap..

I can recommend it for miniature/model making BUT you need to configure yourself the material settings and also be prepared to waste a lot of pdms in testing ,cause this resin is wearing the pdms faster that cherry ..it seems like the chemicals are more "aggressive",it also has a smell that i do not like.
also regarding customer support from Fun to Do resins regarding B9 users
,simply there is none..
you are on your own !!

regarding the glass under the build table ,it was a quick /easy /efficient way to ensure perfect level cause my build table was shipped wrapped..

evshipard
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#18 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:31 pm

Thanks andreas. The results are impressive and the sculpts are great.
I though Cherry had a strong smell- i'm definitely not keen on more toxic resins. Ive been pretty happy with the cherry and the level of detail ( viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4603&p=38115#p38115 ) but I think i'll try the Emerald next.
When you have settled on a good profile for the Funtodo Deep Black I would love to get hold of some of the settings. I use the Barnes Breakable Glass for my coating which is much cheaper and seems more resilient to fogging than Sylgard. It is also very convenient to get hold of for me- just up the road. I wonder how it performs with the Deep Black.
Thanks.

andreas
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Posts: 210

Re: Deep Black testing

Post#19 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:31 am

Hello Community,

Below is a head test printed in 30xy_50z using Deep Black resin.
Both in 3 cm height and 6 cm height

Image

Image

As i am continuing fine tuning my printer i am starting to getting great constant results ,
using the Deep Black resin.Because I want to push the limit some more and do thinner slicing test prints
right now i am printing the same head in 20z slicing ..Lets see..

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Robert Howle
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Re: Deep Black testing

Post#20 » Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:00 am

Like to see your results. Nice prints.

Robert Howle
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