Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

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Metalcaster
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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#141 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:19 pm

Happy Birthday Larry !

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akgold
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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#142 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:01 pm

lswatson wrote:Thank you.
Its Mike and his team that make this possible.
I'm just a recipient and practitioner.
AKgold was the first to post the sanded build platform that I saw.
So, I think its right to say the Community makes this happen.
Today was a pretty good day for a guy turning 62.
cheers,
Larry

Thanks for the accolade Larry but it wasn't me that sanded the build plate that was someone else but we all appreciate the compliments I just can't take credit on this one.
Those prints look great by the way, I am glad you got it working for you.
I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#143 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:22 pm

I probably wouldn't clamp unless the warp in the build table was slight. (I mean, clearly it still works, as you've shown, so maybe I'm full of it.) But it would seem to me you'd be stressing the table by pushing it flat with the clamps, and then locking it in the stressed position with the epoxy. Over time, the stress might cause the epoxy to delaminate, or worse, warp the reinforcing piece.

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#144 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:57 pm

Thanks guys. Moving to the next stage is unavoidable, so I just go with it.
Bexley, I have no idea what you are talking about. We didn't clamp anything.
All Evert did was sand or lap down the build platform to true flat. And there is a bit
more work to be done there.
And in the process figured out a trick that will be discussed. The NuVat is a bit
sticky, but that seems to be able to be overcome. Tests continue.
Overall, a pretty good day.
cheers,
L

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#145 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:59 pm

That was in response to Metalcaster's post.

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#146 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:43 pm

Hadn't seen that. Looks like a pretty heavy duty solution.
And would definitely make the build platform flat.
Just sanding or lapping seems to work to a certain degree.
L

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#147 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:14 pm

By adding 1/8inch aluminum plate using marine epoxy,
and clamping it to the 1"thick plate, I put the whole thing in my oven at 150 oF to cure the epoxy . Then unclamp it and remove the 1 inch plate. Sand the surface flat and
start printing with excellent adhesion to the platform.

The thin original aluminum bends and warps easily . This causes about 50 % or more of printing issues

if your stock build platform gets stuck,then the x axis motor pulls on it and distorts the platform just a tiny bit.
this makes it worse.

These modifications have been working on both my 1.1 and my 1.2 machines for a very long time. My b9c has 1800 hrs on it constantly run at 50 XY and 30 Z...and has failed to print correctly only 4 times during all that time and they were my fault.

The next major mechanical cause of most problems is the issues with the prototyping trays . Tha critical part here is to check the tray and pdms The pdms must be perfectly flat and checked using levels in both directions . Also check that the tray is level in both directions. If they do not match, you will have a problem. With possible binding of the x axis as one problem.

If your pdms is slightly raised in the center area of the tray, it will loosen and knock parts off the platform and causes havoc.
Having the pdms be absolutely flat in relationship to the prototyping platform is very important.
if your platform is dead flat and your pdms is dead flat. The b9 will print very nicely.
The new tray seems to be very well thought out. Very easy to pour the pdms. It is very flat.

I had to replace my pdms after numerous long complex prints. All of a sudden, after months of good prints... a failure. That is when I checked the accuracy of the level on the pdms and found it leaning toward the center of the tray very slightly.. I took the pdms out, poured a new pdms, this time being very careful to level everything. Oven cured in 1 hr at 150 oF . Next print and every print since has been very good.

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#148 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:08 am

Oh, I totally agree that gluing a plate on before lapping is a good idea, to prevent further warping and add rigidity. I'm just not sure about the clamping, as it seems like you would be "trapping" internal stress into the glued piece. (Of course, you did it and it worked fine, so what do I know.) When my aluminum shows up, I will likely skip the clamps.

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#149 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:12 am

Hi Bexley,
If your Platform is not totally flat, Why would you glue another piece to it??
The way I did this in my previous explanation makes the Platform flat and reinforces the platform. The plate I put in also presses against the uprights which had a tendency to bend inwards and not slide up and down easily. After having done it the way I explained, It also makes the uprights a bit more ridged and they now slide up and down when I calibrate very easily .

I have 2 platforms like this and 1800 hours of printing on one of them kind of proves the point.

I was originally going to machine a platform out of solid Flat stock Aluminum, But this fix has been pretty permanent and easy to do.

The other reason for clamping and setting up the way I did was to Keep the red anodizing on the plate as It was theorized by other people that it was necessary to keep the red anodizing . Apparently someone thought that having exposed aluminum would do something to the Material and make it "not castable". That was one of the Main reasons the red Trays were anodized.

I wanted to prove the theory one way or another as it did not make sense to me. My Other machines that are not B9 both print with exposed aluminum platforms. I can tell you that I get really good adhesion everywhere on my platform. At 50 XY and 30Z , I am getting micro prongs on 18 rings at a time...
Attachments
18 rings on 50 x50  Mike 1-1 settings.jpg
18 rings on 50 x50 Mike 1-1 settings.jpg (87.87 KiB) Viewed 3232 times

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#150 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:41 am

Very nice! Thanks for posting about the significance of a 100% flat build platform.
I think there are better prints in my future.
L

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#151 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:04 am

Glad to help Larry. Did you have a good Birthday ?

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#152 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:26 pm

Gluing in an extra piece of aluminum would help to prevent it from warping/twisting when tightening the screws. My reasoning for not clamping things is that all of my experience in trying to use an adhesive to hold a piece of material and n a stressed position has resulted in eventual failure of the adhesive. It may never happen, but I've had it happen enough to be leery of trying it. I'm nt saying it's wrong, just that there may be a valid reason not to.

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#153 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:20 pm

You are perhaps assuming that I did not think ahead.... I had already straightened and flattened my platform. The aluminum I installed did not add any stress as it was carefully sanded and fitted into the space.
The best and most proper method with almost any Glue to bond 2 flat pieces is to clamp them against a dead flat surface.This is a proven technique used in wood working and metal working among other materials as well. Using Marine epoxy is not your normal epoxy either.... also, Sanding the surfaces will definitely build a better Bond.
All that aside,
Even if the aluminum eventually detached itself, you can simply glue it back ... it's not a major issue. The idea is to have a flat platform.
The method I have described for doing it in previous posts has worked flawlessly on 2 machines that are run 6 days a week.

Your method may work well too. :-) Happy Printing !

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#154 » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:40 am

Metalcaster wrote:Glad to help Larry. Did you have a good Birthday ?


Yes, I had a good B Day. Which means working on jewelry stuff, playing with cats in the back yard, a bit of target practice killing cans with my air pistol and then dobro practice. I'm practicing for being retired in two months. Then I'll dive into my third career using a B9 or two or more.
Your ideas about the build table are very helpful.
I forgot to mention firing up the grill and having some folks over. Some people had a drink or six.
Fortunately nobody fell into the fire bowl or knocked over the Pandora radio.

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#155 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:45 am

The first prints to come out using the 1:1 mix with the V1.2 still show the wavy surface I see using pure Red at 50 XYZ.
I was hoping the mix would solve this. Never got it using the V1.1.
We're exposing using all defaults with MSM at 1.0.
Any ideas?
Thank you for the insights.
L

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Re: Red Cherry 1:1 Mix - Test Settings

Post#156 » Sun May 10, 2015 12:38 pm

Can someone post settings for 1:1, Red/Cherry mix, using a V1.1, V1.7.3 software?
I can't up grade to V1.8 due to Win XP issues.
Thank you in advance for any insights.
I'm hoping to try my first print in about a month since the V1.1 went down with multiple board problems.
Got everything together and want to try a first print, but have no experience with the mix and the V1.1
Best,
Larry

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