Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

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akgold
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#81 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:34 am

Here are pictures of last night's tests these are again on B91.1 , 50xy 31.75 z
the two prints both took a little over 2 hours. I canceled the second print due to failed build table adhesion as i did 4 sets in different orientation to see what would happen as well as I add one with a foundation.

I show some close ups and if you look closely you will see a shift line on the Large one as well as the rest that stayed on the build table, of the taller grown cylinders without the foundation. all the others that stayed cut off adhesion to the next layer and were deposited to the resin only to be filtered out.
That shift line caused the other printed areas to release and those were found in the resin well.
they are the exact same size as and sit put to the lines you see.
I don't know what to make of this.

Image
Image
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I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

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akgold
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#82 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:35 am

next
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I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

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Robert Howle
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#83 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:05 am

I am going to build cylinders and a ring etc., but i am going to put support on some cylinders to help with shear forces. Lot to test here.

Thanks for posting, Tim

Robert
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akgold
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#84 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:29 pm

yeah I did that on one of the 4 and it stayed in place but I am having a problem with the prints completing as you can see in the last photo.
that photo shows how the rest of the prints above or I guess it would be below that line, you can see on the ones behind the cyl. sittin on the foundation is exactly where all of the rest of the prints stopped connecting to the last layer and thus deposited the remanents in the resin.
I had a whole bunch of little round slices filtered out.
i think my problem lies in the print area and printing in any other area than the "sweet spot" on the on the table are failing. Also all of the prints the 1 mm cyl. failed at that line ( you cant see it behind the others)
I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

madmartian
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#85 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:25 pm

Are you currently using any Subsequent Overlift? I was having a similar problem at 0 overlift. When I changed the overlift to 1mm, the problem went away. I'm printing at 75 xyz, so you might be able to use a smaller overlift than I am.

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tim.yoshi
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#86 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:59 am

Are you sure that machine haven't skipped the layer? I saw/heard this few times on mine. But it was actually old software and maybe I was wrong shining with torch into the print area to see how it is going.
Image

jimbit22
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#87 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:23 pm

Hello guys newbie to the forum here.

I believe most oleophobic coatings might work as a good alternative for sylgard 184, qsil 216 and others.
Most high quality screen protectors for smartphones use these coatings and are easy to apply. One having a spare screen protector could easily try this in between PDMS coatings. Alternatevly a test must be conducted by someone with access to diffrent brands of these coatings to verify the hypothesis. Also uv light perneability wasn't taken into account.
On my diy dlp printer i currently use qsil 216 with no problems(tilting vat).

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tim.yoshi
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#88 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:18 am

jimbit22 wrote:Hello guys newbie to the forum here.

I believe most oleophobic coatings might work as a good alternative for sylgard 184, qsil 216 and others.
Most high quality screen protectors for smartphones use these coatings and are easy to apply. One having a spare screen protector could easily try this in between PDMS coatings. Alternatevly a test must be conducted by someone with access to diffrent brands of these coatings to verify the hypothesis. Also uv light perneability wasn't taken into account.
On my diy dlp printer i currently use qsil 216 with no problems(tilting vat).


I also considered using phone screen protectors at some point. But how to glue it tightly?
Image

jimbit22
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#89 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:04 pm

Believe that you don't have to glue it, the adhesion from the film itself might do the trick. B9C slides the vat so it will not lift it. But you may have to remove the PDMS scraper tho and be extra carefull during testing(i whould hate it if you destroyed your perfectly good vat because of me).

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Metalcaster
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#90 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:48 pm

Hi,
If you don't glue it, you must devise a mechanical method to hold the film in place. Perhaps a thin metal border that goes around the film that can be removed when the coating needs to be changed. Some clever hold down ties.
I have tried film without glue and it did not last 2 minutes on the B9 , Thats why I would suggest trying a hold down / clamping method.Also for replaceability.

Marci975
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#91 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:43 am

Hi
I'm new here in forum. I have some question.
Has anyone tried this already for VAT recoating?

http://www.muve3d.net/press/product/fep ... r-coating/

I want to try this whit Madesolid black resin.
And MadeSolid Black and FireCast do not require the sweeper blade and not scratch the surface of Teflon coating...
I think..

Martin

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mikej
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#92 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:36 am

Slide release depends on the cure inhibition properties of the coating, teflon has none and will not work.
The purpose of the sweeper is not relevant to the resin being used. It is to mix the resin, removed any cured resin that failed to adhere to the model (very important) and to help re-oxygenate the coating.
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

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noahbern
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#93 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:55 am

@ akgold how many hours are on your bulb?

dabbler
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#94 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:04 am

Just looking for UK sourced PDMS and found RTV 615.

Anyone tried it? It's £70 a kilo.

jimbit22
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#95 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:56 am

i have successfuly tried QSIL 216(it gets the job done but not as good as sylgard) and now are testing Electrolube SC3001.
RTV 615 is not PDMS, it is PVS. You can look the MSDS http://msds.momentive.com/ehswww/testEbiz/e/result/report.jsp?P_LANGU=E&P_SYS=1&P_SSN=25866&P_REP=00000000000000000180&P_RES=24108&winTitle=Momentive%20Performance%20Materials

dabbler
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#96 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:09 pm

Interesting, Tecshil and Silicone Solutions both suggested RTV615 as an alternative to Sylgard 184.

I'll look at the electrolube product.

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akgold
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#97 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:51 pm

noahbern wrote:@ akgold how many hours are on your bulb?


251hrs
sorry for the delay I kept forgetting to look
I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

jimbit22
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#98 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:09 am

dabbler wrote:Interesting, Tecshil and Silicone Solutions both suggested RTV615 as an alternative to Sylgard 184.

I'll look at the electrolube product.


That companies probably suggested these products as alternatives for the job that they where designed.

Keep in mind that normally all of these products were ment to be potting compounds for electronics..

I have also experimented with PE (Polyethene) as PDMS alternative but more experimentation is required..

dabbler
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#99 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:52 am

Hi Jimbit22,

The MSDS for RTV615 says it's polydimethylsiloxane terminated with vinyl and hydrogen groups and not polyvinyl siloxane?

Are we talking about the same stuff? I've seen RTV615 and Sylgard 184 listed as equivalent PDMS's on a few sites.

Is the 'terminated with vinyl' bit a problem?

(just trying to understand what I'm looking for!)

This is what's in Sylgard 184:
55.0% - 75.0% Dimethyl siloxane, dimethylvinyl-terminated
30.0% - 50.0% Dimethylvinylated and trimethylated silica
<1.0% Tetra(trimethylsiloxy) silane
<1.0% Ethylbenzene

jimbit22
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Re: Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#100 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:57 am

They are listed as the same because they are designed to be used as potting compounds. But chemicaly they're somewhat different. I'm not in a position to tell if that deference will affect anything.
The fact that we are using them as a substrate for 3d printing is an exemption out of their normal use.

As stated somewere here, in the forum , the thing that keeps the resin sticking to the PDMS layer is oxygen that is absorbed by the layer or something like that that is not explained thoroughly.

IMHO because they're both silicone based products there won't be any problems. Silicone is inert by its nature so there would be no adhesion problems between the cured resin and the vat. But I'm not a chemical engineer and my knowledge in organic chemistry is limited to the basics.

Just to be sure you can wait for me to test the one that I already have.

Worth to note that I tested the PE plastic only for it's also inert nature.

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