Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

General materials & resin discussions
edefault
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#1 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:24 pm

Since I (too) ruined the PDMS through running the B9Creator with the build platform accidentally positioned too low, I shot me some Sylgard 184 on eBay USA.
Unfortunately, it travels a long time until it arrives in good old Europe.

Apparently, there must be sources and/or alternatives locally.

The first is a german distributor of Sylgard 184 (MAVOM GmbH, Steinfurt).
They can deliver Sylgard 184 within 2 days, but charge 170€ (net) for 1.1kg and request a minimum order of 300€.
European B9Creator owners could share a batch eventually.

An alternative I have sitting and curing on my desk right now came from www.silikonfabrik.de (nice online store), where a small quantity order is no problem and prices are moderate.
Looks promising! I got me 1 kg of SF-45 2K silicone rubber (500g+500g), 250ml silicone oil to adjust the viscosity eventually and a 500g/0.1g tomopol t800 electronic balance - that was 50€ all together.

The "45" in SF-45 is for the Shore grade 45, I'll post an update soon about the outcome of using it as a PDMS / Sylgard 184 replacement.

Image

Edit: Looks great! Once cured - oven, 60°C, 30 minutes - the silicone rubber "SF-45" is as transparent as the PDMS remnants, yet strong and flexible. I'll give it a try with the vat!

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tim.yoshi
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#2 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:41 am

waiting for conclusions - it's very interesting
Image

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mikej
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#3 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:07 am

The key factor will be it's ability to absorb oxygen and inhibit cure, I hope it works!
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

dragnink
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#4 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:15 am

Good luck!

Very interested in that post cure unit, who's it made by? Does it work well?

dansokol
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#5 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:48 pm

It looks just like ...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008CYO6P6/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

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mikej
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#6 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:45 pm

I'll have to pick up one of those and see how it works. Hours of sunlight are getting short up here in South Dakota this time of year.
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

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mikej
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#7 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:55 pm

Just ordered this one, looks the similar but 120vAC and $7 less.
http://www.amazon.com/Acrylic-Shellac-CURING-Drying---White/dp/B008BTN13A/
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

dragnink
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#8 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:21 pm

Here too, and temps have been in the teens at night lately.. thank God for pellet stoves. lol

edefault
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#9 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:08 am

Quote from dragnink on November 18, 2012, 15:15
Good luck!

Very interested in that post cure unit, who's it made by? Does it work well?


First: My PDMS replacement works fine. It even feels a bit sturdier than Sylgard 184 :-)
But I didn't manage to get it as even as the original one - next time, I have to take more care to precisely level my desk. The house is from 1905, 7cm lower to the south than to the north.

Second: Such "post cure units" are very common in fingernail studios, and really cheap. Nice christmas gift for your girlfriend - don't forget to buy some stylish resin with it ;-)

darthviper107
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#10 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:15 am

On reapplying the PDMS, for leveling make sure you measure the surface of the bottom of the vat, not the actual bottom, those four edges on the bottom aren't level themselves so if you just put the vat on a level surface then it doesn't mean the surface of the vat will be level.

edefault
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#11 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:27 pm

Thanks for the advice! I'll heed them when I replace the PDMS next time - yet it is not damaged again.

When using the "post cure unit", one has to move/turn the parts inside from time to time, because otherwise there is significant bending - it seems as if the resin shrinks when post-cured, primarily on the "enlightened" side.

Rabs1
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#12 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:46 am

Hi, What mix did you use in the end with the two rubber components and the oil? Is it still working well? This is so much more cost effective for those of us in Europe.

edefault
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#13 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:14 am

mix is 20g base + 20g hardener + 5g oil

Rabs1
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#14 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:16 pm

And in your experience, how does it compare to the Sylgard in use? Is it as reliable, does it still go cloudy? Any other comments.
Thanks

edefault
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#15 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:38 am

it is a bit cloudier compared to sylgard, which is crystal clear, from the start, but

1) easier to handle - making of the "waterfall" slope with sylgard is tricky, since it takes 48h to cure
2) not as fragile - I just ruined a fresh sylgard coating by only slightly wiping over the "waterfall"

Bas
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#16 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:29 am

I also have problems with the PDMS. I can see clearly cloudy spots from earlier prints, burned in the surface. The sylgard also tends to loosen at the waterfall location, getting air under the PDMS. It's just too fragile.
How can you best clean the pdms after a print, without wrecking it? Now I wipe the resin off with some paper, and then poor cold water over it. I wipe it dry, and then I use isopropyl alcohol and some paper, to clean the surface.

edefault: How is your experience with printing with SF-45 2K? Is there any loss of detail or increase of failed prints compared to sylgard?

edefault
B9 Maker
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#17 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:01 pm

I had both Sylgard and SF-45 working.

Sylgard seems to be more fragile, three Sylgard coatings ripped off compared to one SF-45 that began to bulge behind the waterfall so I tore it off myself before it could seriously ruin a print.

However, SF-45 seems to be more prone to "grey" where it was exposed repeatedly.
Maybe this is simply because I made much more use of it (Sylgard didn't make it there):

Image

de
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#18 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:36 am

Hi MikeJ
I was reading about a Titandioxid coating for windows together with UV Light it is super hydrophilicity.
Could that be a alternativ to the VAT coating ?

anlumo
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#19 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:39 pm

I've done my first coating with SF-45, but there are many bubbles on the shallow end (strangely, it's very clear on the deep end). I'm doing a test print now in the hopes that it'll work out anyways (the largest ones are outside the small build area).

I suspect that because SF-45 cures so much faster, the air doesn't have the time to escape.

juweeltje
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Sylgard 184 availability & replacements

Post#20 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:01 pm

So any progress worth the sf-45?
Is it a great alternative for the sylgard?
Does it affect the quality of the prints at 50um?

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