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Vat Nano-Coating?

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:42 am
by Eddie J
I picked up some nano-coating hydrophobic compound and was going to test it on a vat as a pdms alternative.

The nano particles mean that with any liquid in contact with the coating - only around 3% of the surface is actually in contact with the material surface and is instead floating on a raft of air.

Perhaps this will mean there is very little release forces on each layer? Has anyone tried this (before i get spraying!)

Re: Vat Nano-Coating?

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:10 am
by tim.yoshi
AFAIK nobody tried it.
I assume it potentially could be fast wearing, i.e. after few prints it could dramatically loose it's properties. Or it will just wont work at all from the beginning :) That's my humble Prediction )

Re: Vat Nano-Coating?

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:43 am
by Eddie J
Will do a test with the resin curing on it. But this brand i have does make the surface go cloudy! So will have to test with a clear version later on to be suitable in a vat.
May well be as you predict Tim ;)

Re: Vat Nano-Coating?

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:03 am
by tim.yoshi
Eddie J wrote:Will do a test with the resin curing on it. But this brand i have does make the surface go cloudy! So will have to test with a clear version later on to be suitable in a vat.
May well be as you predict Tim ;)

So any updates with coating?

Re: Vat Nano-Coating?

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:27 am
by BDan
Hi!
I tried NeverWet coating, see the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w4cB6RmRTA
It's not oleophobic but only super hydrophobic, tried it anyway..
I had the results I kind of expected..
I would've liked to try with EverDry super amphiphobic coating but I guess it wouldn't last long unless I sand the acrylic surface to make the coating attach better but then we'd have a hard time re-coating.. so I didn't bother.
One plausible solution is the FEP teflon Sheet (instead of acrylic sheet) VAT.
I can't find it right now but once stumbled on an KickStarter campaign for an Open Source DLP with a Teflon sheet Vat advertised as everlasting, easy to clean, etc..
I found a shop that sells 4' x 4' Teflon Sheet here in Montreal and will purchase one soon, have it LaserCut as the regular B9 Vat parts and assemble either by heat bond or some special cement welding.
I contacted the company by email but since I had no answer I'm going to call straight up and ask for the technical info.
Stay tuned!

Re: Vat Nano-Coating?

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:11 pm
by BDan
OOPS!
Sorry, the company doesn't hold stock of transparent FEP, PFA, etc sheet and it will cost $700 for a 4' x 4' sheet.. They only have white PTFE sheet in stock. They say that in order to stick parts together we need to treat the surfaces in an apparently ''secret way'' for a big fee... A little research will give it up..
But first I'll try with thin tape, white translucent to mimic pigments. I'm getting ready to order the next Laser Cut parts for 3 new Vats and I'll apply the thin Teflon tape before I assemble, on inside side of all the parts for one Vat and test it..
It's easyer to find stores in the US or Europe that hold FEP and PFA Sheet in stock, so if you guys can find some samples to give them a try please do and keep us posted!
Cheers!

Re: Vat Nano-Coating?

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:40 am
by tim.yoshi
BDan wrote:OOPS!
Sorry, the company doesn't hold stock of transparent FEP, PFA, etc sheet and it will cost $700 for a 4' x 4' sheet.. They only have white PTFE sheet in stock. They say that in order to stick parts together we need to treat the surfaces in an apparently ''secret way'' for a big fee... A little research will give it up..
But first I'll try with thin tape, white translucent to mimic pigments. I'm getting ready to order the next Laser Cut parts for 3 new Vats and I'll apply the thin Teflon tape before I assemble, on inside side of all the parts for one Vat and test it..
It's easyer to find stores in the US or Europe that hold FEP and PFA Sheet in stock, so if you guys can find some samples to give them a try please do and keep us posted!
Cheers!

Here it is on mUVe online shop. And only for $3.5 :)
Enjoy ;)

http://www.muve3d.net/press/product/fep ... r-coating/

Re: Vat Nano-Coating?

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:00 am
by Metalcaster
I tried the tape coating available at muve a long time ago and the b9 peeled the tape on the second try. Also the first try was not very successful.(I still have 5 sheets !) I made my own trays for the ASIGA and I used FEP clear ... it did not require Glue of any kind as they use a flexible bottom and not a hard glass bottom ( although I tried that too )The FEP clear worked very well on the Asiga, better then their material and I told them that. I also used thicker material and that was also beneficial as the thinner material could puncture and leak if a part came loose on the asiga.

Applying thin film with Glue of any kind is very tricky and easily traps airpockets which cause issues in the Prototypes.
Been there done that. Also Have to develop a method for applying the glue and eliminating any air inclusions as you try to glue it down.
I have the Nuvat coated glass from Evert and that has been working fine.

Other materials are being tested as I have time and some materials are showing real promise., BUT, any material that works is costly and ALL materials will eventually need to be replaced as they do get damaged. So far, the easiest has been the pdms to replace.

Re: Vat Nano-Coating?

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:14 am
by tim.yoshi
Metalcaster wrote:I tried the tape coating available at muve a long time ago and the b9 peeled the tape on the second try. Also the first try was not very successful.(I still have 5 sheets !) I made my own trays for the ASIGA and I used FEP clear ... it did not require Glue of any kind as they use a flexible bottom and not a hard glass bottom ( although I tried that too )The FEP clear worked very well on the Asiga, better then their material and I told them that. I also used thicker material and that was also beneficial as the thinner material could puncture and leak if a part came loose on the asiga.

Applying thin film with Glue of any kind is very tricky and easily traps airpockets which cause issues in the Prototypes.
Been there done that. Also Have to develop a method for applying the glue and eliminating any air inclusions as you try to glue it down.
I have the Nuvat coated glass from Evert and that has been working fine.

Other materials are being tested as I have time and some materials are showing real promise., BUT, any material that works is costly and ALL materials will eventually need to be replaced as they do get damaged. So far, the easiest has been the pdms to replace.


Nice INFO. I also got some of their FEP film lying around, but still got no chance to test it. Maybe if to glue it somehow harder... Where it got peeled? From the left or right side?

Re: Vat Nano-Coating?

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:14 pm
by Metalcaster
Hi Tim,
It was hard to tell where the tearing started when I got to it, it was a mess. I did not experiment further with that material as it was not clear.