v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing? - RESOLVED

A lost wax capable resin tuned for 30 - 50 micron slice thickness
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Robert Howle
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#21 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:20 pm

This is where u find the MSM (Printer Settings) . Be sure and click "Save Values".

Printer settings 1.JPG
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alanbuttler
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#22 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:18 am

Hi Robert, thanks again for your suggestions. I've retried this morning with an MSM of 1. 3 with no change. Here are settings used:

Material:

J0005 1-1 Material.JPG
J0005 1-1 Material.JPG (41.95 KiB) Viewed 4403 times


Printer Settings:

J0005-P0003-Printer-Settings.JPG
J0005-P0003-Printer-Settings.JPG (50.19 KiB) Viewed 4403 times


Print Settings:

J0005-P0003-Print-Settings.JPG


Software Version: Version 1.7.3 Copyright 2014 B9Creations, LLC http://www.b9creator.com

Last Comm Port: COM9
Display Index: 1
Last Print Attempt Status: Aborted
Configuration: B9Creator v1.2.0, XY at 50 microns
Job Name: C:/Users/aab1/Dropbox/3D Modelling/Jobs/0005 Calibration Matrix Cut/Calibration Matrix Cut 30um.b9j
Job Data
Name: Calibration Matrix Cut 30um
XY Pixel Size: 30 µm
Slice Thickness: 30 µm
Total Layers: 47
Material Volume: 0.41 ml

Material Settings
ID: 1:1 Mix, Description: Hi-Res, lost wax suitable.
Calc Base: 2.233, Used Base: 2.233
Calc Over: 0.419, Used Over: 0.419
Calc Attach Layers: 2, Used Attach Layers: 2
Calc ABase: 8.374, Used ABase: 8.374
Calc AOver: 1.571, Used AOver: 1.571

Cycle Settings
Unsupported Pixel Multiplier: 0.8
Shutter Open Speed : 70
Shutter Close Speed : 60
Pre Exposure Delay (Settle) : 2.5
Post Exposure Delay (Kick) : 0.2
Post Release Delay (Breathe) : 1.5
Overlift Cutoff (mm) : 0.5
Initial Overlift (mm) : 3
Subsequent Overlift (mm) : 1
Dip (mm) : 0

Job Position
X Offset: 0
Y Offset: 0
Mirrored: false
Show Grid: true

Would you suggest increasing the MSM as an experiment?

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Robert Howle
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#23 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:04 am

I would delete the app and reinstall. Can't hurt. Have no idea why u are getting failed prints. Is the gold arm (x axis) tight on the motor. When u move the arm with your hand does it slip. In other words is the vat moving to the correct position on each open and close? Sorry but I am graspint at straws at this point.

Where did u purchase your machine. I would contact that distributor.

Robert
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alanbuttler
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#24 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:53 pm

Hi Robert,

I've retried today with an MSM of 1.75 and the defaults, which gave the same result - nothing curing.

I decided then to go back to the settings I used which did result in layers curing, though on they hadn't attached to the build table.

This attempt worked and I have all slices joined and present on the build table at the end of the print. I've cleaned it up in the ultrasonic and it's currently sat in the UV oven, I'll post pictures shortly!

I used the following settings:

MSM 1.75

J0005-P0007-MSM-1.75-Custom-Settings.JPG


Software Version: Version 1.7.3 Copyright 2014 B9Creations, LLC http://www.b9creator.com

Last Comm Port: COM9
Display Index: 1
Last Print Attempt Status: Completed
Configuration: B9Creator v1.2.0, XY at 50 microns
Job Name: C:/Users/aab1/Dropbox/3D Modelling/Jobs/0005 Calibration Matrix Cut/Calibration Matrix Cut 30um.b9j
Job Data
Name: Calibration Matrix Cut 30um
XY Pixel Size: 30 µm
Slice Thickness: 30 µm
Total Layers: 47
Material Volume: 0.41 ml

Material Settings
ID: 1:1 Mix, Description: Hi-Res, lost wax suitable.
Calc Base: 3.007, Used Base: 8
Calc Over: 0.564, Used Over: 1.5
Calc Attach Layers: 2, Used Attach Layers: 2
Calc ABase: 11.276, Used ABase: 35
Calc AOver: 2.115, Used AOver: 2

Cycle Settings
Unsupported Pixel Multiplier: 1
Shutter Open Speed : 70
Shutter Close Speed : 60
Pre Exposure Delay (Settle) : 4
Post Exposure Delay (Kick) : 1
Post Release Delay (Breathe) : 1.5
Overlift Cutoff (mm) : 2
Initial Overlift (mm) : 3
Subsequent Overlift (mm) : 1
Dip (mm) : 0

Job Position
X Offset: 0
Y Offset: 0
Mirrored: false
Show Grid: true

gopack
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#25 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:00 pm

I had a similar problem when I first ran the machine (I assembled it myself too). IMHO the 4 screws on anchoring the build table are really only used for miss-alignment in one dimension (the plain that runs out of the machine). I solved the problem on my end by double checking my alignment on the nose of the build platform when compared to the front of the machine (the plain that runs through the sides of the machine). Take a bubble level and check how level the front of your machine is (again the plain that runs through the sides of the machine) and then check the level on the black part of the build platform. The bubbles should match each other so that they are co-planar (see pictures). If they don't raise your build platform up and loosen up the 4 screws that hold the golden arm onto the Z axis. Rotate to match the bubble level that was on the front of the machine, tighten screws, and then double check the level. You should do this WITH the black build table portion installed.

You then level the build platform like you always do and this takes up any miss-alignments in the plain coming out of the machine (And some minor ones going through the side). I hope this helps you.
Attachments
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alanbuttler
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#26 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:09 pm

Here is the first semi successful print, successful as in there is something physical at least!

It snapped as I was positioning it for the photograph, I must have been a little too rough with it as it's quite thin of course. It looks as though some detail has come out very well. I did leave it on the build table a little too long as it looks as though some droplets have cured on the top most detail, or possibly they didn't come out properly in the first place?

P1170357.jpg


Thanks for that suggestion gopack - I'll double check the alignments before the next test print, this time I'll try something taller.

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alanbuttler
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#27 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:50 pm

Hi all, some more progress with the same settings as previous, this time I've used the Make: Rook as the test print to see how higher layers are dealt with.

Some areas haven't printed at all, but on the whole, compared to how things looked yesterday this is considerable progress..! If anyone has any ideas of how next to proceed I'd be very grateful.

P1170365.jpg
P1170365.jpg (70.59 KiB) Viewed 4318 times


P1170363.jpg
P1170363.jpg (73.45 KiB) Viewed 4318 times


MSM of 1.75

Software Version: Version 1.7.3 Copyright 2014 B9Creations, LLC www.b9creator.com

Last Comm Port: COM9
Display Index: 1
Last Print Attempt Status: Completed
Configuration: B9Creator v1.2.0, XY at 50 microns
Job Name: C:/Users/aab1/Dropbox/3D Modelling/Jobs/0006 MakeRook/J0006-MakeRook-30xyz.b9j
Job Data
Name: J0006-MakeRook-30xyz
XY Pixel Size: 30 µm
Slice Thickness: 30 µm
Total Layers: 800
Material Volume: 1.30 ml

Material Settings
ID: 1:1 Mix, Description: Hi-Res, lost wax suitable.
Calc Base: 3.007, Used Base: 8
Calc Over: 0.564, Used Over: 1.5
Calc Attach Layers: 2, Used Attach Layers: 2
Calc ABase: 11.276, Used ABase: 35
Calc AOver: 2.115, Used AOver: 2

Cycle Settings
Unsupported Pixel Multiplier: 1
Shutter Open Speed : 70
Shutter Close Speed : 60
Pre Exposure Delay (Settle) : 4
Post Exposure Delay (Kick) : 1
Post Release Delay (Breathe) : 1.5
Overlift Cutoff (mm) : 2
Initial Overlift (mm) : 3
Subsequent Overlift (mm) : 1
Dip (mm) : 0

Job Position
X Offset: 0
Y Offset: 0
Mirrored: false
Show Grid: true

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Robert Howle
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#28 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:04 pm

Looks like u have air bubbles everwhere. U cannot shake the resin vigoursly and then pour directly into the vat . U have to let the air bubbles break up. When the poster before was talking about everything in assemble being correct, one of the most important things is the upper and lower sections must be planar.

A straight edge should touch the surfacer from top to bottom.

Have included picture of non planar assembly.
non planar assembly.JPG
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alanbuttler
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#29 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:28 am

Hi Robert, I'd let the resin settle in the vat for about 5 hours after 8-10 mins of vigorous shaking - would you recommend leaving it for longer before starting to print?

I'll check the rear of the unit for straightness, I'm pretty sure its right as it was a step to check during the assembly. I will double check, best to be sure.

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Robert Howle
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#30 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:20 am

You don't need to let sit but few minutes (10 or 15). In 5 hrs the pigment is def starting to settle out. This maybe the root of your problems.
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alanbuttler
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#31 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:16 am

I'm giving it another go now Robert, having mixed the resin in the vat with an old credit card first.

How would you recommend removing bubbles? I read that you'd used an ultrasonic cleaner - I have a small 750ml bath which I could only get the bottom of the resin bottle into - would it need a bigger bath for this method be successful?

Thanks again for your input Robert!

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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#32 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:07 am

As long as the bottom of the bottle fits and there is room to add a little bit of water around it you should be good with sonicating it in a small bath. The sound waves will be transferred through the medium.

I use a silicone brush used in cooking to stir my resin before using it once it is already in the Vat. It won't scratch the PDMS layer and does a pretty good job mixing what is in the vat. The fresh stuff I mix on a magnetic hot plate prior to filling the vat. Also, I use a syringe with a long hose on the end of it to get the resin from the bottom of the bottle and not from the bubbly top of the bottle as a precaution.

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Robert Howle
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#33 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:10 am

I assume u did not let the shaken resin in the bottles sit for 5 hrs. If u did and then poured into the vat it is not going to work.

I only put the 1:1 mix bottle in the ultrasonic after shaking and before I pour into vat. This is just to make the bubbles dissipate faster.
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alanbuttler
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#34 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:47 am

Thanks gopack & Robert, I'll start over with the resin and follow your suggestions for removing the bubbles

I've also reinstalled v1.7.3 to see if that changes anything - no change as yet, I'm still having to use much higher settings than the default to get anything to cure.

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tim.yoshi
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#35 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:10 pm

If you'll let it sit for 5 hours some pigment will settle out and actually it will make better chances for print ot suvive. Yes, it's the case, coz when there is less pigment in resin it will cure easilly. If you have problems with curing with resin sitting 5 hours, yoo'll def will have more with "freshly" shaken resin.

Just try to bump up msm more.

Also do check that you don't have any software that alters the color scheme of the screen. I do had once problem that all my prints suddently wonted print after sunset! I was like 0_o WTF? Ghosts? But then realized that I installed programm wich automatically dims and alters color of screen to more reddish with sunset. This is made in order to allow your eyes to feel more comfortable and your brain to start to live in "normal" time, i.e. day-night. You could find more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.lux It is great. But of course it altered the projector too and after real sunset it started to be way more reddish on the projector too. And of course that resin almost stoped to cure. So maybe you are not using such a program, but still could it be that some drivers, games or something like that changes some settings.
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alanbuttler
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#36 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:36 pm

Hi Tim, thanks for the input. I'm currently running the birdcage using the settings on the Odessey Cherry thread, so far the supports are looking to have formed ok, I'll see how things look in a few hours!

That's an interesting point about the screen colours. I'm using the external port of my laptop, I might switch to my PC just in case there is any change.

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akgold
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#37 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:18 pm

your over thinking this whole thing

when you mix the resin after sitting for a length of time you don't need to shake it for 10 minutes.
if the bottle is a full bottle and you just received it then you may well need to shake it for 3 or 4 minutes.
that shaking would be holding the bottle side ways and wiggle it sideways for awhile. If you want pout it out into another bottle and just pour them back and forth to minimize the bubbles
but if there has to be a happy medium that doesn't require it to sit so long to allow bubbles to exit the resin that you would need to mix it again.

so stirring would be a better option VS shaking vigorously.

I would start changing any of the msm and so on until you actually set up and print the appropriate items at the recommended settings at 30 or 50 or 75 using the correct resin for the size and detail of the model.
for that rook you need to use Cherry / Red at a 50/50 mix to get the best result.
I use a flat card to mix the resin in the vat before printing by swishing it back and forth. in both directions.
go back to basics.
share the model 3dm or stl with us to see if it is a valid stl.

good luck
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alanbuttler
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#38 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:32 pm

Hi akgold, so far all attempts with the default settings and default MSM have resulted in nothing curing, firstly with just cherry at 50xy and 50 z, and later in order to match the successful configurations that you guys use with Cherry / Red 1:1 at 30xy and 30 z. I've only been able to get anything to appear by increasing the MSM and also using longer exposure and settle times.

The 2 issues I have - the mixing/shaking/settling method for the resin being one and the curing of the resin the other - are these linked?

The STL for the Rook is here - http://www.thingiverse.com/download:872956

Thanks for taking the time to help out guys, it's much appreciated!

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alanbuttler
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#39 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:16 am

I've logged a call this morning with the distributor iMakr in the UK. I'm also going to try another machine in the mean time.

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alanbuttler
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Re: v1.2 HD with 1:1 Mix - not curing?

Post#40 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:33 am

Trying out a new machine with a fresh install and all defaults for 1:1 had the same issue, nothing curing.

Could the issue be with the projector? Am I right in saying that if the projector is working properly then the resin should be full of detached or malformed floaters, regardless of any other issues?

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