Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

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info@markenburg.nl
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#1 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:42 am

I Downloaded the new V1.7.3 software form this site.
But throughout this week I experienced the same problems over and over again.

- Every time I want to print anything I first have to fill in the pixel ratio of the screen again. Otherwise I can’t print at al. (the option “Print” will than only be “Preview”)
- If I want to start the program a second time it will fail. You will see the hourglass image for ever. And only restarting the PC will help.

Trouble shoot info:
- B9C version 1.7.3
- Functioning on Windows XP (with SP3)
- B9C version 1.6.0 functioned perfectly up to a week ago. (At that point it started to lose connection with the 3D printer all the time, causing a lot of failed prints.) After trying basically everything else I downloaded the new 1.7.3 version. Now the connection seems to be good again. But I guess I found a few bugs, listed above.

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mikej
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#2 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:38 pm

Quote from info@markenburg.nl on September 18, 2014, 14:42
I Downloaded the new V1.7.3 software form this site.
But throughout this week I experienced the same problems over and over again.


I just uploaded less than 24 hours ago, are you sure you have v1.7.3 and not v1.7.2?

In any case, can you duplicate the error and then go straight to your "My Documents/B9Creator" directory and send me the "B9Creator_LOG.txt" file? This might help me figure out what's happening.
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

info@markenburg.nl
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#3 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:51 pm

I'm sorry for my late response.
It's for sure 1.7.3 (I double checked it)
I cleaned up my PC completely and now most problems (listed above) seem to be gone.

Except for one.
When I start to print I walk through the 5 steps of preparation. (filling up the VAT and things like that)
and at that point I fill up the VAT perfectly to the underside of the red coloured build table.
So far so good.
Then I hit the create button and the B9C starts to heat up the beamer and positions the the build table. But positioning means that the build table submerge in the liquid (pretty much on top of the PDMS layer) and then starts to light it with the beamer.
After shining the light on it for a few seconds the build table will rise up again (but not above the liquid) than the VAT will move left and right an there the fist layer is already swimming on it's own somewhere in the VAT. (completely detached from the build table) The same thing happens with the following layers.

So I now think I have to ask: How can I get the build table just on top of the liquid level, when shining the light from the beamer on it.

Thanks a lot for the response already, and I promise to reply quicker.

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Robert Howle
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#4 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:56 pm

Sounds like u need to recalibrate the build table. Several users had to recalibrate the build table after the upgrade. Others recalibrated the build table and then just plug and unplug everthing and helped with problems after the upgrade.

Also if u are using any resin or resin mix, (other than red or cherry alone with defaults), and had successful settings, then click in the area of the print screen " restore settings from last print" the upgrade did not cause u to lose those settings.

Robert
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info@markenburg.nl
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#5 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:50 pm

I already took care of recalibrating the buildtable a few day ago.
I now also restarted the computer and plug and unplug everthing.

But still the build table is finding a realy reasoanble hight when I need to fill the VAT by step 4 before printing, but when I push the button "create" the buildtable goes seriously down (submerge compleatly) where the further problems, of not making anything propperly, start.
I also tryed to make different things, tryed different files (some alredy made succesfully with the 1.6 version.) But in every case the same happens. The build table submerge in the liquid right before making the first layer and than does everyting like it should, but way to low/deep.

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behold3d
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#6 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:13 am

your resin level has nothing to do with prints adhering to the build platform.

like Robert said it may be a build table calibration issue or an exposure issue. Try adjusting your machine specific multiplier up in increments and see if you can stick your print to the platform.

I run my b9 submerged often with no issues.
-Lino

tobyramp@hotmail.com
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#7 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:17 am

To make sure I understand I have to ask. Do you think the table should not submerge and that it should be at the top of the resin level while the projector is on?

info@markenburg.nl
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#8 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:27 am

Yes thought that because it was the case by pretty much everything I have made so far. But those things where all quite small so maybe that explains why I thought so.

At the moment I am testing with different curing/exposure times esspecialy for the base layers.
Hopefully I will find a setting where the layers stay attached to the build platform.
(I use Spot HT, from Spot A materials)

They say:

Fast B9 projectors (configure these settings the first time you use our resins)
First layer exposure: 10 sec, 4 base layers
T-Base: 3 sec
T-Over: 4 sec

Slow B9 projectors (if the above settings cause delamination and/or faulty layers)
First layer exposure: 18 sec, 4 base layers
T-Base: 10 sec
T-Over: 10 sec


I used the settings for a fast projector successfully with B9C creator 1.6 software.
But those settings don't seem to work anymore unfortunately. So I am now slowly trying to set the numbers more and more to the slow projector settings listed just above.

tobyramp@hotmail.com
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#9 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:19 am

On the first layer the distance between the table and the PDMS should be the slice thickness. For example if you sliced at 50 microns the distance is 50 microns.

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Robert Howle
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#10 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:22 am

When u click "create" the table must go into the resin to get to the proper slice thickness. When the table goes down it is squeezing out all the resin between the table and the vat PDMS at what ever layer thickness u have chosen. The layer trapped between the table surface and the PDMS and hit by the slice image is being hardened. It only sticks to the build table (or previous cured layer) because the oxygenated surface of the PDMS does not allow it to stick to the PDMS. The sliding of the vat is to release the printed layer from the PDMS. If the build table were to raise straight up the suction bewteen the printed layer and the PDMS would prob rip appart the print. After each layer is exposed and printed then the table resets for the next layer thickness. The table will always be under the resin until the print is tall enough to allow it to be above the resin. Any other questions, just ask. There is always plenty of help here. The documentaion is comming, It just takes time. Mike is only one person and has been trying to do the software fixes first.

If u are still having issues maybe do uninstall and reinstall on the B9 software.

Robert
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info@markenburg.nl
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#11 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:49 am

Thanks for all the response so far.

I do have a next question though.
I now use the "slow" settings:
First layer exposure: 18 sec, 4 base layers
T-Base: 10 sec
T-Over: 10 sec

That helps. The layers don't fall of the buildable anymore.
But another completely new problem, for me, occurs now every time.
The PDMS ruptures after about 500 to 700 layers. The product is by far not ready at that point, so my VAT bottom is now full with firmly attached resin. (I did abord the print at the moment I saw things where goning wrong, but than the bad things already happend.)

First question is How can I keep the PDMS from damaging/rupturing?
I truly don't know why and how it happens. I never had this before and now already 4 times in a row.
If needed, I can upload a photo of the mess.

Second question: How can I get the cured resin from the bottom of the vat without scratching the acrylic? Are there fluids that weaken/resolve the resin but not the Acrylic by example?
Carefully scraping it away or prying it out does not seem to be the solution, I already found out. Because you need to apply serous force and that gives scratches on the VAT bottom.

Many thanks for the replays!

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akgold
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#12 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:52 am

are you using enough PDMS ?
how thick is the pdms?
I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

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Robert Howle
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#13 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:36 pm

Post "print data" go to "Help" and select "Copy last print settings to clipboard".
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info@markenburg.nl
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#14 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:28 pm

I make 50 ml of PDMS and every last drip of it will also ends up in the VAT.
(45 ml of the big bowl and 5ml of the little bottle. (sylgard 184))
Then I patently wait for about 72 hours (3 days) And then I check it if its neatly stiffened up.
The thickness will be approximately 1.5 or 2.5 mm at the place where it ruptures that’s always where the sweeper is and the actual printing/curing is done. I guess that's called the "shallow end".

I measured the last broken PDMS at the place where it's broken. It was 1,5mm think.

Further on the last print settings (This print was aborted because of the rupturing of the PDMS)

Software Version: Version 1.7.3 Copyright 2014 B9Creations, LLC www.b9creator.com

Last Comm Port: COM3
Display Index: 1
Last Print Attempt Status: Aborted
Configuration: B9Creator v1.1.0, XY at 50 microns
Job Name: C:/Documents and Settings/Mark/Bureaublad/Transfermap 3D printer/Oranjelaan trappen en test perscontainer.b9j
Job Data
Name: Oranjelaan trappen en test perscontainer
Description: Oranjelaan trappen en test perscontainer 19mc
XY Pixel Size: 50 µm
Slice Thickness: 19.05 µm
Total Layers: 2133
Material Volume: 8.59 ml

Material Settings
ID: Spot-HT, Description: Hi-Res, super strong.
Calc Base: 15.619, Used Base: 18
Calc Over: 0.781, Used Over: 0.781
Calc Attach Layers: 4, Used Attach Layers: 4
Calc ABase: 62.476, Used ABase: 10
Calc AOver: 3.124, Used AOver: 10

Cycle Settings
Unsupported Pixel Multiplier: 0.8
Shutter Open Speed : 70
Shutter Close Speed : 60
Pre Exposure Delay (Settle) : 2.5
Post Exposure Delay (Kick) : 0.2
Post Release Delay (Breathe) : 1.5
Overlift Cutoff (mm) : 0.5
Initial Overlift (mm) : 3
Subsequent Overlift (mm) : 1
Dip (mm) : 0

Job Position
X Offset: 0
Y Offset: 0
Mirrored: false
Show Grid: true

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mikej
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#15 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:54 am

Slicing too thin, 19 microns is very thin and I am very skeptical that it's practical unless that resin has a LOT of pigment in it.
Curing for 18 secs on a v1.1 at 50 microns XY is a LONG time, especially for a reactive resin like Spota's

Over exposure will destroy a pdms coating very quickly, that's what's happening here. You should consult with your resin supplier for appropriate settings.
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

info@markenburg.nl
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#16 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:28 am

Okey

I do have a lot of black pigment and dye in the Spot HT. The colour is not yellow anymore but dark green, nearly black.
That should mean that we have a problem with overexposure of the PDMS.
At the start of this threat I wondered why every single layer was falling of the build table. Advice was to cure longer.
I did cure longer and longer to the point that the layers where holding on to the build table.
Both sets of settings and everything in between was what Spot A materials advice people with a B9C to do. (you may check my post made on, September 30, just a bit above this one.)

Of course I can try what happens when I shorten the exposure time. But when doing that I probably start to have “freely swimming layers” again.
I want it to be fixed so I will try to set the exposure time quite a bit shorter. But I am sorry in advance when my next question is again "what to do when the layers are not holding to the build table and swimming around in the VAT".

I will keep you all informed, regardless of the results.

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Robert Howle
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#17 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:47 am

If not adhearing then possibley check the alignment of the nut an gold arm and screw. If u do this then u will have to recalibrate the build table.

One of MIke's posts.

Robert

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info@markenburg.nl
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#18 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:15 pm

Results so far.

I tested with shorter exposure times like Mike advised just above this post.
Before testing I calibrated the build table once more.
What happened is that the PDMS not ruptured after about 700 layers. So that is positive. (The PDMS is still lying straight on the bottom of the VAT and seems not to be harmed.)
Though there is still an issue. Because the entre build fell off the build table after about 700 layers (total is about 2100 layers) So the actual printing stopped kind of halfway.
I aborted the print at the moment I saw the build swimming in the VAT.

Question is: Why did the product detach from the build table and could it be a good idea to cure the four base layers a bit longer hoping that it will prevent the next build from falling off the build table.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and opinions!

Further on, the last print settings (This print was aborted because the build was swimming freely in the VAT after about 700 layers)

Software Version: Version 1.7.3 Copyright 2014 B9Creations, LLC www.b9creator.com

Last Comm Port: COM3
Display Index: 1
Last Print Attempt Status: Aborted
Configuration: B9Creator v1.1.0, XY at 50 microns
Job Name: C:/Documents and Settings/Mark/Bureaublad/Transfermap 3D printer/Oranjelaan trappen en test perscontainer.b9j
Job Data
Name: Oranjelaan trappen en test perscontainer
Description: Oranjelaan trappen en test perscontainer 19mc
XY Pixel Size: 50 µm
Slice Thickness: 19.05 µm
Total Layers: 2133
Material Volume: 8.59 ml

Material Settings
ID: Spot-HT, Description: Hi-Res, super strong.
Calc Base: 15.653, Used Base: 10
Calc Over: 0.783, Used Over: 0.783
Calc Attach Layers: 4, Used Attach Layers: 4
Calc ABase: 62.612, Used ABase: 4
Calc AOver: 3.132, Used AOver: 3

Cycle Settings
Unsupported Pixel Multiplier: 0.8
Shutter Open Speed : 70
Shutter Close Speed : 60
Pre Exposure Delay (Settle) : 2.5
Post Exposure Delay (Kick) : 0.2
Post Release Delay (Breathe) : 1.5
Overlift Cutoff (mm) : 0.5
Initial Overlift (mm) : 3
Subsequent Overlift (mm) : 1
Dip (mm) : 0

Job Position
X Offset: 0
Y Offset: 0
Mirrored: false
Show Grid: true

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Robert Howle
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#19 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:19 pm

You really need advice from the model makers here like Brumbaer. I don't know any of the jewelry users that can help with 3rd party resins. Sorry, wish I could help.

Robert
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mikej
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Experiencing troubles with version 1.7.3 B9C software.

Post#20 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:49 am

The thicker you attach layer and the longer you cure it, the more likely it will pop off later. If you are using a reactive resin (like you mention) it will have a high shrinkage rate and that will eventually cause a model to pop off it it's not supported carefully with well thought out supports that can absorb the shrinkage that's happening during the print.
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