New Vat vs Re coated Vat

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Italyy
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New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#1 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:38 pm

Dear B9 users,
I know that you can get like 15 to 20 prints out of a re coated vat, but how many prints can you get out of a new vat ?

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akgold
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#2 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:53 pm

I have a 1.1 vers B9 I printed on the NeVat as a beta tester for 4 months before he made it available.
I used the same glass until I scratched it with my fingernail. and that was after I turned it 180 degrees because there was a bubble at the end of the glass that was developing so I turned it opposite and printed on it another 6 months. I had switched to the metal red vat from B9 before the resin model came out.

as long as you don't scratch the area you print in it will last a very long time.
Last edited by akgold on Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

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Robert Howle
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#3 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:21 am

Talking about the new orange polyvats or the Evert coated NuVat? The NuVat is not a new vat, it is an old vat with the window coated by Evert, uses no PDMS. Just want to be clear, don't want to confuse new users.
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Italyy
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#4 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:42 am

I mean by new vat: the vat that is sold on the B9 website, with some other printers you need to buy a brand new vat that can last up to 2 liter of resin.
How many prints or how much resin can i print or use with a brand new vat?
My point is that maybe i can consider the vat as a consumable and not dealing with re coating it (if there is a significant difference)

jljr99
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#5 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:15 am

I personally can not throw away $70 dollars, probably $85 after shipping, like that. I've had problems with prints that had the resin stick to and warp the PDMS on the first print of a new PDMS. Maybe that was my fault but I can't make afford $85 mistakes.

PDMS starts clouding at the very first print, even though you can't see it by eye. I print at 30xy and get maybe 10 or 15 4hr prints. I can tell you this too, after the 10 or 15 prints the whole 30xy window is burnt into the PDMS even though most of that area had never been printed on.
Like I have said earlier, there has been projector calibrations runs that have messed up my PDMS.

I'd have to guess that not many of these guys here on B9 use vats as a disposable item. It would cost way too much to throw that kind of money away.

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Robert Howle
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#6 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:25 am

If u are damaging the PDMS with your calibration prints then your table calibraion must be off.

It is not necessary for the "grid" to be on for printing. There is an option in the printer to have the projected grid turned "on" or "off".

I'm just curious why it is turning off after a few layers.

Robert Howle
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jljr99
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#7 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:29 am

There have been times I have printed the calibration grid maybe 7 to 10 times trying to dial the 2mm pegs in perfectly all around. After that many prints the pegs have clouded the pdms.

Matt
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#8 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:06 am

You should be able to get the same amount of prints out of a new vat vs. a re-coated vat. It all depends on your slice thickness and material used. Black won't cloud as fast as cherry, a thicker sliced print won't cloud as fast as thinly sliced print etc.

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mikej
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#9 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:26 am

PDMS will print fine even when fairly cloudy. If the surface starts to be come "rough" where it's cloudy then it's time to replace it.
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

jljr99
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#10 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:52 am

I very well may have been overly cautious with cloudy PDMS, but somewhere I have read in the forum that when the PDMS starts showing clouding it's time to replace it.

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mikej
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#11 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:01 am

If your prints are looking fine and the vat gets cloudy, try continuing to print with the cloudy vat and inspect the parts. I think you will find that they are fine for longer than you might expect. But once the PDMS surface begins to get rough, you will start having print failures.
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

jljr99
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#12 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:53 pm

That's great to know. I've never let my pdms go near long enough to have surface issues. Thank you.

BTW, I got extremely busy with my main sellers and haven't printed yellow yet. I have not been selling print/cast items yet maybe a little but not much. I had a large learning curve with printing and casting but those have been coming together nicely. The 20um ash free yellow is going to advance my progress in those areas. I am really going to push on producing print/cast items in 2016 for sales. I want to make this investment in money and time pay off.

Italyy
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#13 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:42 pm

One re coating kit cost 99 $ , you can get out of it from 60 to 100 prints that would cost for each time that you print from 1 $ to 1.65 $
I really wish that the b9 team will find another alternative to pdms and i know that they will.
Thank you all for your replies.

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Robert Howle
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#14 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:34 pm

Just keep in mind, it's still the lowest cost for a quality print availavle anwhere, best support (factory and forum), quickest responce times from the manufacture, and it's a US based facility, no charge upgrades on software, no third party code, etc..

I assure you, improvements will keep coming. Mike and the team have a goal of lowcost quality printing for all your 3d printing needs. I am really looking forward to the future with everyone in the B9 family. Improvements take time and testing, but with Mike and the others at B9 they have been coming with quite a bit of regularity since day one.

Robert Howle
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jljr99
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#15 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:07 pm

Agreed. I've been looking and will always continue to look at what else is out there, be stupid to not. As far as I have found the B9 is the best machine in the price range out there.

None of the laser machines have the resolution. There are a few other projector machines that are cheaper but as Robert said the support and software make up for any price difference and more. Some machines are using the flex film to get away from PDMS but Mike isn't a fan and I trust his opinion.

We all want an option for PDMS and I'm sure that's being worked on. There is a lot that can be improved upon with this machine as with every other machine out there but here I am confident those improvements are being considered and worked on. I would like to see the B9 skunkworks facility, lol.

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RobertH
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#16 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:33 am

Lets all gather and hire a chemist or something to come up with something somehow :lol:

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RobertH
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#17 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:44 am

jljr99 wrote:I very well may have been overly cautious with cloudy PDMS, but somewhere I have read in the forum that when the PDMS starts showing clouding it's time to replace it.


Hii

If you have solid objects plain rings etc.. you dont need to replace as soon as you see clouding, but if you want tiny details .4 .6 stuff then I aggree. Thats why I try to keep plain rings etc at the same spot in the corner when im printing, to save the rest for detailed jobs. Just wanted to share my idea GL

jljr99
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#18 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:17 am

Good advice, RobertH.

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ROSITAGIOIELLI
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#19 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:03 pm

Hi Italyy. I tried to resolve the pdms life problems for long time. I bought the nu vat, is very simple and good idea to use a fep sheet glued on the glass but after few prints are scratched. So I decided to build my own "pizza flexvat" now after many experiment work very well and I can print hundreds of time without re coat nothing! I modified the distance between the projector and the vat because the fep vat is taller than the glass and i modified the tuning of the machine in the advanced parameter. So look the you tube video and could you think about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvJ6BDZQ_Os
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v1r5UwzQJc
I can help everyone like made his own fep vat.
Ciao Sergio :D :D

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perpetual_dreamer
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Re: New Vat vs Re coated Vat

Post#20 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:49 pm

I haven't recoated my red aluminum vat since I purchased the b1.2 printer when it was released believe it or not. One half of it did go cloudy but I use the projector mod so currently on my second half of the vat for atleast a year now. Anyone get this much mileage out of their pdms? I've been printing about twice a month only though with a fully covered build table. I still can't believe its still going. I've tried to tilt the resin to once side to check if the pdms is cloudy but I can't seem to see any to warrant changing the pdms. Mind you, I haven't printed any rings with extremely high details or micro prongs for a few months.

I think this printer has come a long way from its first version.. I remember back then, I had to change the pdms in about 2 to three prints. Fingers crossed my current pdms doesn't start clouding up after this.

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